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Heroes In Shades Of Grey
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<blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 7735279"><p>I don't think you're looking at constraints properly. There are still plenty of constraints in D&D, but some of the more useless ones have been disregarded over time. People got tired of having to be lawful stupid in order to keep their class abilities, people got tried of having to eat babies to stay a warlock (which required an evil alignment at the time). They got tired of them not because they wanted to play thugs who never took responsibility for their actions, but because these elements did not lend themselves towards good gameplay, or even good <em>role</em>-play. They forced people to make bad decisions when there was no inherent reason for them to do so, other than some gamest mechanic required them to do so in order to keep their alignment.</p><p></p><p>Arguably, I would say that the "shades of grey" heroes from Martin's books are perhaps, more heroic than the heroes from Tokein's books. But that's because these people are fighting two different kinds of evil. The former fight a more subtle, internal evil. The latter fight an obvious, external evil. If the orcs are always bad guys, are you really a hero for fighting them? But what if they orcs <em>might not</em> be bad guys? What if they're desperate wanderers who have been forced from their home for *reasons* and in that process, have turned into essentially a nomadic army, like locusts. Is it heroic to fight them? Sure it is. But it's also heroic to <em>understand</em> them. It's also heroic to look for better solutions than "beat up the bad guy". </p><p></p><p>Heroism isn't just about fighting evil. It's about being able to tell what is evil, and what isn't. If the Gm just <em>tells you</em> that the bad guys are evil, there's really no heroism in fighting them. Heck, you could be evil and fight evil! You just happen to not like <em>those</em> evil doers. Does that make you a good guy? Does that make you heroic?</p><p></p><p>The heroes in Martin's books also fight evil within themselves. The urge to do evil because it is easier, because it is faster, because it is a more permanent solution to the problem. It makes for deep characters who resonate with their audience, who likewise have to fight evil within themselves. To take the easy route, to cheat, to steal. </p><p> This doesn't exist in black-and-white games, in these games you are the hero because your alignment says LG. The bad guys are the bad guys because their stat-block says LE/CE/etc... These games can be fun and enjoyable, but they are largely two-dimensional. Characters move along predictable paths, those who are not good, die, those who are good, live. But these games can get boring and repetitious and as people grow and realize there is more to life than black-and-white, they want to experience these higher concepts within the hobbies they enjoy.</p><p></p><p>What people have discovered is that heroism is less about stomping the bad-guys face (which may not be very heroic), but heroism is about "doing the right thing". This may at times include stomping the bad-guy's face, but that has become a much smaller element of "doing the right thing". Sometimes doing the right thing is letting your enemies live, sometimes it's taking them to jail, sometimes it's outright killing them. Sometimes you must sacrifice your goodness to stop a greater evil. Sometimes heroism is judged a thousand years from now, sometimes it is judged in the moment. </p><p></p><p>Sure, you can take the Doctor's approach in a grey world: But then you're going to have to take the lumps that come with such an approach, and if your character isn't an immortal, half-mad genius half-bleeding heart, you may find this leads your character to a very short lifespan. And indeed, one of The Doctor's defining elements is that doing good <em>literally</em> kills him.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sunseeker, post: 7735279"] I don't think you're looking at constraints properly. There are still plenty of constraints in D&D, but some of the more useless ones have been disregarded over time. People got tired of having to be lawful stupid in order to keep their class abilities, people got tried of having to eat babies to stay a warlock (which required an evil alignment at the time). They got tired of them not because they wanted to play thugs who never took responsibility for their actions, but because these elements did not lend themselves towards good gameplay, or even good [I]role[/I]-play. They forced people to make bad decisions when there was no inherent reason for them to do so, other than some gamest mechanic required them to do so in order to keep their alignment. Arguably, I would say that the "shades of grey" heroes from Martin's books are perhaps, more heroic than the heroes from Tokein's books. But that's because these people are fighting two different kinds of evil. The former fight a more subtle, internal evil. The latter fight an obvious, external evil. If the orcs are always bad guys, are you really a hero for fighting them? But what if they orcs [I]might not[/I] be bad guys? What if they're desperate wanderers who have been forced from their home for *reasons* and in that process, have turned into essentially a nomadic army, like locusts. Is it heroic to fight them? Sure it is. But it's also heroic to [I]understand[/I] them. It's also heroic to look for better solutions than "beat up the bad guy". Heroism isn't just about fighting evil. It's about being able to tell what is evil, and what isn't. If the Gm just [I]tells you[/I] that the bad guys are evil, there's really no heroism in fighting them. Heck, you could be evil and fight evil! You just happen to not like [I]those[/I] evil doers. Does that make you a good guy? Does that make you heroic? The heroes in Martin's books also fight evil within themselves. The urge to do evil because it is easier, because it is faster, because it is a more permanent solution to the problem. It makes for deep characters who resonate with their audience, who likewise have to fight evil within themselves. To take the easy route, to cheat, to steal. This doesn't exist in black-and-white games, in these games you are the hero because your alignment says LG. The bad guys are the bad guys because their stat-block says LE/CE/etc... These games can be fun and enjoyable, but they are largely two-dimensional. Characters move along predictable paths, those who are not good, die, those who are good, live. But these games can get boring and repetitious and as people grow and realize there is more to life than black-and-white, they want to experience these higher concepts within the hobbies they enjoy. What people have discovered is that heroism is less about stomping the bad-guys face (which may not be very heroic), but heroism is about "doing the right thing". This may at times include stomping the bad-guy's face, but that has become a much smaller element of "doing the right thing". Sometimes doing the right thing is letting your enemies live, sometimes it's taking them to jail, sometimes it's outright killing them. Sometimes you must sacrifice your goodness to stop a greater evil. Sometimes heroism is judged a thousand years from now, sometimes it is judged in the moment. Sure, you can take the Doctor's approach in a grey world: But then you're going to have to take the lumps that come with such an approach, and if your character isn't an immortal, half-mad genius half-bleeding heart, you may find this leads your character to a very short lifespan. And indeed, one of The Doctor's defining elements is that doing good [I]literally[/I] kills him. [/QUOTE]
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