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"HF" vs. "S&S" gaming: the underlying reason of conflict and change in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Krensky" data-source="post: 4819029" data-attributes="member: 30936"><p>Well, first off the word you want is trope, not troupe. A troupe is a theater group, a trope is a literary theme, convention, or cliche.</p><p></p><p>As for your literary analysis, I think you got it wrong.</p><p></p><p>The protagonists of S&S stories won because they were the protagonists. S&S stories follow many of the same tropes as action movies. The protagonists may not be good guys but the antagonists are worse, violence, seducing beautiful women, and daring do solves all problems. Conan, Elric, Hawkmoon, et all win because they're the protagonists. Winning may be pyrrhic or just surviving, but they still enjoy massive amounts of plot protection.</p><p></p><p>The nature of morality in High Fantasy is correct, and there is a good bit of Judeo-Christian symbolism in the two earliest recognised works (OK, a lot), but the premise in the genre of good defeating evil is not inherently Judeo-Christian or Abrahamic. While the definition of good and evil changes, it's something inherent to the human condition.</p><p></p><p>As for S&S being atheistic, most of it's filled to the brim with gods. Made up gods, gods from real world faiths, sometimes even the Abrahamic god in normal form or some sacreligous inversion. Both HF and S&S gods can and often are interventionist, but they show up in a Deist fashion as well. Heck, in Lord of the Rings God isn't particularly invovled in the affairs of the world, Sauron, Gandalf and the rest are angels and fallen angels.</p><p></p><p>Then look at Solomon Kane. Fights evil, moral rectitude, Christian (Puritan to be precise), etc. It's been a while but I'm willing to be the man prayed and swore oaths to God. God may not have answered, but that has more to do with an interesting story then any beliefs Howard may have had. Plus, as the saying goes, God helps those who help themselves. The protagonist hacking his way through monsters to slay the evil priest is far more interesting a story then one praying to God who makes it all better. This is why Frodo has to carry the Ring and Aslan needs the kids.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Krensky, post: 4819029, member: 30936"] Well, first off the word you want is trope, not troupe. A troupe is a theater group, a trope is a literary theme, convention, or cliche. As for your literary analysis, I think you got it wrong. The protagonists of S&S stories won because they were the protagonists. S&S stories follow many of the same tropes as action movies. The protagonists may not be good guys but the antagonists are worse, violence, seducing beautiful women, and daring do solves all problems. Conan, Elric, Hawkmoon, et all win because they're the protagonists. Winning may be pyrrhic or just surviving, but they still enjoy massive amounts of plot protection. The nature of morality in High Fantasy is correct, and there is a good bit of Judeo-Christian symbolism in the two earliest recognised works (OK, a lot), but the premise in the genre of good defeating evil is not inherently Judeo-Christian or Abrahamic. While the definition of good and evil changes, it's something inherent to the human condition. As for S&S being atheistic, most of it's filled to the brim with gods. Made up gods, gods from real world faiths, sometimes even the Abrahamic god in normal form or some sacreligous inversion. Both HF and S&S gods can and often are interventionist, but they show up in a Deist fashion as well. Heck, in Lord of the Rings God isn't particularly invovled in the affairs of the world, Sauron, Gandalf and the rest are angels and fallen angels. Then look at Solomon Kane. Fights evil, moral rectitude, Christian (Puritan to be precise), etc. It's been a while but I'm willing to be the man prayed and swore oaths to God. God may not have answered, but that has more to do with an interesting story then any beliefs Howard may have had. Plus, as the saying goes, God helps those who help themselves. The protagonist hacking his way through monsters to slay the evil priest is far more interesting a story then one praying to God who makes it all better. This is why Frodo has to carry the Ring and Aslan needs the kids. [/QUOTE]
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"HF" vs. "S&S" gaming: the underlying reason of conflict and change in D&D
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