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"HF" vs. "S&S" gaming: the underlying reason of conflict and change in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Krensky" data-source="post: 4819463" data-attributes="member: 30936"><p>Mine was a misspelling, since derring-do means daring to do, and is pronounced the same. His was a completely different word in meaning and pronunciation.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It depends on the context. As a reader, the former. Under literary analysis, the later. Looking at the Conan stories mechanically, Conan survives because otherwise Howard would upset his readers and the magazines and starve. Conan was presented and sold as a two-fisted man of actiopn and passion. He is presented to the audience as a man who can not be beaten. If Howard had him fail (in this context, have him die or loose in any meaningful way) he would violate a the implicit contract between author and reader. He would have presented a story as being X, and then made it anti-X. If you sell something to a reader as one thing, and then give them the opposite, you annoy them and they stop reading.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And yet those are both S&S (anti-)heroes. The thesis of the OP was that in S&S the heroes have no guarantee of success or victory. Being fated to do something in the future pretty much is the antithesis of that. They may be fated to fail at that thing, or to bring nothing but sorrow and destruction to those around them, but they'll still survive what they're facing now because otherwise they can't go do that fated thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Atheism means gods do not exist. Granted, in the case of Conan there's no real evidence that the gods are gods or even that they exist, a number of other Sword and Sorcery stories (Wagner's Kane series, de Camp's Pusadian series, others I'm surely forgetting) have very real gods (in the classical sense of a god, anyway). On the other side, there's Shannara for a HF or EF world with no gods. Basically, his assertion of religous underpinnings to either sub-genre is completely off base.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Krensky, post: 4819463, member: 30936"] Mine was a misspelling, since derring-do means daring to do, and is pronounced the same. His was a completely different word in meaning and pronunciation. It depends on the context. As a reader, the former. Under literary analysis, the later. Looking at the Conan stories mechanically, Conan survives because otherwise Howard would upset his readers and the magazines and starve. Conan was presented and sold as a two-fisted man of actiopn and passion. He is presented to the audience as a man who can not be beaten. If Howard had him fail (in this context, have him die or loose in any meaningful way) he would violate a the implicit contract between author and reader. He would have presented a story as being X, and then made it anti-X. If you sell something to a reader as one thing, and then give them the opposite, you annoy them and they stop reading. And yet those are both S&S (anti-)heroes. The thesis of the OP was that in S&S the heroes have no guarantee of success or victory. Being fated to do something in the future pretty much is the antithesis of that. They may be fated to fail at that thing, or to bring nothing but sorrow and destruction to those around them, but they'll still survive what they're facing now because otherwise they can't go do that fated thing. Atheism means gods do not exist. Granted, in the case of Conan there's no real evidence that the gods are gods or even that they exist, a number of other Sword and Sorcery stories (Wagner's Kane series, de Camp's Pusadian series, others I'm surely forgetting) have very real gods (in the classical sense of a god, anyway). On the other side, there's Shannara for a HF or EF world with no gods. Basically, his assertion of religous underpinnings to either sub-genre is completely off base. [/QUOTE]
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