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"Hide in Plain Sight" and "Camouflage" - WHO SAYS???
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<blockquote data-quote="Jackinthegreen" data-source="post: 6188928" data-attributes="member: 6678119"><p>I'm only familiar with 3.5, not Pathfinder, so my comments will be coming from that point of view. They will also be coming from the point of view that the ability is actually meant to be functional and such, so any odd interpretations that mean the ability doesn't actually function or change the gameplay are discarded.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm" target="_blank">Hide</a> shows that in order to normally hide from something:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Those are the two big things, but the link does have the rules for sniping and such. The sniping rules follow the -20 to hide for attacking just like it is in the first line of:</p><p></p><p></p><p>With regards to the Ranger, the Hide skill does specifically call it out under Special:</p><p></p><p></p><p>So it explicitly says that a 13th level ranger can hide in any sort of natural terrain and does not need the usual cover or concealment. That does not obviate the need to not be directly observed because everything else about the Hide skill is still in effect. <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover" target="_blank">Cover</a> is noted as being "Any barrier between an attacker and defender" according to the <a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_cover&alpha=" target="_blank">glossary</a>. <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment" target="_blank">Concealment</a> is not so well defined since it's self-referential. Looking at the <a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_concealment&alpha=" target="_blank">glossary</a> shows that concealment is "Something that prevents an attacker from clearly seeing his or her target." <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blur.htm" target="_blank">Blur</a> is one of those "somethings" but it can also be something like <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#visionAndLight" target="_blank">shadowy illumination</a>. Note that in that link it specifically says it's not possible to hide in the shadows in the range a creature with darkvision.</p><p></p><p>At 17th level, the ranger can then hide even while being observed. If we look at the ranger's abilities, we see that this only applies in natural terrain, but it still means several things such as the character no longer needs to provide a distraction to hide because it can hide even while being looked at.</p><p></p><p>By the way, I don't recommend trying to relate this into something realistic. WotC itself has noted that Olympic athletes are at most about 6th level, so things like Camouflage and HiPS are superhuman abilities.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jackinthegreen, post: 6188928, member: 6678119"] I'm only familiar with 3.5, not Pathfinder, so my comments will be coming from that point of view. They will also be coming from the point of view that the ability is actually meant to be functional and such, so any odd interpretations that mean the ability doesn't actually function or change the gameplay are discarded. [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm"]Hide[/URL] shows that in order to normally hide from something: Those are the two big things, but the link does have the rules for sniping and such. The sniping rules follow the -20 to hide for attacking just like it is in the first line of: With regards to the Ranger, the Hide skill does specifically call it out under Special: So it explicitly says that a 13th level ranger can hide in any sort of natural terrain and does not need the usual cover or concealment. That does not obviate the need to not be directly observed because everything else about the Hide skill is still in effect. [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover"]Cover[/URL] is noted as being "Any barrier between an attacker and defender" according to the [URL="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_cover&alpha="]glossary[/URL]. [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment"]Concealment[/URL] is not so well defined since it's self-referential. Looking at the [URL="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_concealment&alpha="]glossary[/URL] shows that concealment is "Something that prevents an attacker from clearly seeing his or her target." [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blur.htm"]Blur[/URL] is one of those "somethings" but it can also be something like [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#visionAndLight"]shadowy illumination[/URL]. Note that in that link it specifically says it's not possible to hide in the shadows in the range a creature with darkvision. At 17th level, the ranger can then hide even while being observed. If we look at the ranger's abilities, we see that this only applies in natural terrain, but it still means several things such as the character no longer needs to provide a distraction to hide because it can hide even while being looked at. By the way, I don't recommend trying to relate this into something realistic. WotC itself has noted that Olympic athletes are at most about 6th level, so things like Camouflage and HiPS are superhuman abilities. [/QUOTE]
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