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<blockquote data-quote="Galloglaich" data-source="post: 4631901" data-attributes="member: 77019"><p>Hey I don't have a lot of time but I just wanted to pop in here, and say thanks for crunching the numbers, that's some good stuff! </p><p></p><p>I think maybe we need to also explore the idea of what the infantry was all about in this period as well in order to determine the context of our knight so we can figure out what class and level to start for our baseline.</p><p></p><p>In the meantime, here are a couple of links:</p><p></p><p>There are many Ren-faire type groups who do jousting, but here is a group in Norway which does actual historical European martial arts from horseback - taking it to another level. Their fighting is based on lichtenauer tradition i gather, primarily Talhoffer who has a lot of horseback combat (including some really elegant disarms I've seen done in demonstrations)</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.frilansene.no/news.aspx" target="_blank">Frilansene - Batallie</a></p><p><img src="http://www.frilansene.no/images/www.frilansene.no/xtraining.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /><img src="http://www.frilansene.no/images/www.frilansene.no/vm.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p><img src="http://www.frilansene.no/images/www.frilansene.no/Petter%20splintrerHamar06.JPG" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>Now, per your request, some written sources.</p><p></p><p>For kind of an entry level I like the Osprey books. These are kind of the clift notes version of medieval history, they are criticized sometimes by academics for having a few mistakes but I find their level of accuracy overall is very good, and the presentation is usually excellent. They always have a detailed and (usually) historically correct overview of kit (i.e. weapons and armor etc.) always including examples from the archeological record, as well as (usually) good illustrations from guys like Angus McBride, and various timelines and records of battles etc. with all your stats.</p><p></p><p>Most importantly they are a very quick and easy entry into getting an basic idea about this kind of stuff. They vary in quality of course, here are a few I have really liked so far (in no particular order):</p><p></p><p><strong>Knight of Outramer 1187-1344</strong></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Knight-Outremer-AD-1187-1344-Warrior/dp/1855325551/ref=pd_sim_b_4"]Amazon.com: Knight of Outremer AD 1187-1344 (Warrior): David Nicolle, Christa Hook: Books[/ame]</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><strong>The Swiss at war 1300-1500 </strong>(this one was a real eye-opener)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Swiss-War-1300-1500-Men-At-Arms-94/dp/0850453348/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232221970&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: The Swiss at War 1300-1500 (Men-At-Arms Series, 94): Douglas Miller, Gerry Embleton: Books[/ame]</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span><strong>German Medieval Armies 1000-1300 AD</strong></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/German-Medieval-Armies-1000-1300-Men-at-Arms/dp/1855326574/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b"]Amazon.com: German Medieval Armies 1000-1300 (Men-at-Arms): Christopher Gravett, Graham Turner: Books[/ame]</p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span><strong>Landsknecht Soldier</strong></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Landsknecht-Soldier-1486-1560-Warrior-Richards/dp/1841762431/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232221068&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: Landsknecht Soldier 1486-1560 (Warrior): John Richards, Gerry Embleton: Books[/ame]</p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span><strong>Teutonic Knight 1190-1500</strong></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Teutonic-Knight-1190-1561-David-Nicolle/dp/1846030757/ref=pd_sim_b_1"]Amazon.com: Teutonic Knight: 1190-1561 (Warrior): David Nicolle, Graham Turner: Books[/ame]</p><p></p><p><strong>The Hussite Wars 1419-1436</strong></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Hussite-Wars-1419-36-Men-at-Arms/dp/1841766658/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232222018&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: The Hussite Wars 1419-36 (Men-at-Arms): Stephen Turnbull, Angus Mcbride: Books[/ame]</p><p></p><p><strong>Medieval Russian Armies 1250-1500</strong></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Russian-Armies-1250-Men-At-Arms/dp/1841762342/ref=pd_sim_b_4"]Amazon.com: Medieval Russian Armies 1250 - 1500 (Men-At-Arms): David Nicolle, Angus Mcbride: Books[/ame]</p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>French Medieval Armies 1000-1300 AD</strong></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/French-Medieval-Armies-1000-1300-Men-at-Arms/dp/1855321270/ref=pd_sim_b_1"]Amazon.com: French Medieval Armies 1000-1300 (Men-at-Arms): David Nicolle, Angus Mcbride: Books[/ame]</p><p></p><p><strong>Viking Hersir 793 - 1066 AD</strong></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Viking-Hersir-793-1066-AD-Warrior/dp/1855323184/ref=pd_sim_b_6"]Amazon.com: Viking Hersir 793-1066 AD (Warrior): Mark Harrison, Gerry Embleton: Books[/ame]</p><p></p><p><strong>The Normans </strong></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Normans-Elite-David-Nicolle/dp/0850457297/ref=pd_sim_b_njs_2"]Amazon.com: The Normans (Elite): David Nicolle, Angus Mcbride: Books[/ame]</p><p></p><p></p><p>In about the mid-range, you have popular historians. One of my favorites is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewart_Oakeshott" target="_blank"><strong>Ewart Oakeshott</strong></a>, the remarkable amateur sword collector who totally revolutionized our understanding of what Medieval swords were actually like, gave us the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakeshott_typology" target="_blank">Oakeshott Typology</a> and indirectly led to the rediscovery of European Martial Arts. He is most famous for his books on swords (which I'll be blogging about later in this thread) but he also did some nice little books on knights, two in particular relavent to this topic:</p><p></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Knight-His-Horse-Ewart-Oakeshott/dp/0802312977/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232220692&sr=8-1"]A Knight and his Horse[/ame] is a particularly good reference for this subject as is [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Knight-His-Armor-Ewart-Oakeshott/dp/0802313299/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_c"] A knight and his armor [/ame]</p><p></p><p></p><p>For more serious academic stuff...</p><p></p><p>The ultimate reference on the martial arts of this period is still Sydney Anglo's superb [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Arts-Renaissance-Europe/dp/0300083521/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232221462&sr=1-1"]The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe [/ame] which is an excellent overview of all the various Fechtbuchs and the close up view they give us on individual combat, judicial combat and duels in this period.</p><p></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Arts-Renaissance-Europe/dp/0300083521/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232221462&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe: Sydney Anglo: Books[/ame]</p><p></p><p></p><p>For warfare on a more strategic / operational level, I like Hans Delbruck as a general source on Medieval combat. Delbruck wrote about 100 years ago and some people now dispute some of his figures on the number of combatants in various famous battles, but most of his analysis still stands. This is a pretty heavy read mind you, 700 something pages, but vastly better written than most academic works I've read, it's very clear minded well structured analysis really helped me put the overall picture of what medieval combat was like into perspective. I've never read his other two books (Classical and early modern era respectively) but I'd like </p><p>to.</p><p></p><p>Anyway this is the one I read:</p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">Medieval Warfare: History of the Art of War, Volume III </span></p><p></p><p>[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Warfare-History-Art-War/dp/0803265859/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232220799&sr=1-2"]Amazon.com: Medieval Warfare: History of the Art of War, Volume III (History of the Art of War, Vol 3): Hans Delbruck, Walter J. Renfroe Jr.: Books[/ame]</p><p></p><p>Anyway, that's a start. I'll fill in a few more later as I think of them.</p><p></p><p>G.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Galloglaich, post: 4631901, member: 77019"] Hey I don't have a lot of time but I just wanted to pop in here, and say thanks for crunching the numbers, that's some good stuff! I think maybe we need to also explore the idea of what the infantry was all about in this period as well in order to determine the context of our knight so we can figure out what class and level to start for our baseline. In the meantime, here are a couple of links: There are many Ren-faire type groups who do jousting, but here is a group in Norway which does actual historical European martial arts from horseback - taking it to another level. Their fighting is based on lichtenauer tradition i gather, primarily Talhoffer who has a lot of horseback combat (including some really elegant disarms I've seen done in demonstrations) [URL="http://www.frilansene.no/news.aspx"]Frilansene - Batallie[/URL] [IMG]http://www.frilansene.no/images/www.frilansene.no/xtraining.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://www.frilansene.no/images/www.frilansene.no/vm.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.frilansene.no/images/www.frilansene.no/Petter%20splintrerHamar06.JPG[/IMG] Now, per your request, some written sources. For kind of an entry level I like the Osprey books. These are kind of the clift notes version of medieval history, they are criticized sometimes by academics for having a few mistakes but I find their level of accuracy overall is very good, and the presentation is usually excellent. They always have a detailed and (usually) historically correct overview of kit (i.e. weapons and armor etc.) always including examples from the archeological record, as well as (usually) good illustrations from guys like Angus McBride, and various timelines and records of battles etc. with all your stats. Most importantly they are a very quick and easy entry into getting an basic idea about this kind of stuff. They vary in quality of course, here are a few I have really liked so far (in no particular order): [B]Knight of Outramer 1187-1344[/B] [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Knight-Outremer-AD-1187-1344-Warrior/dp/1855325551/ref=pd_sim_b_4"]Amazon.com: Knight of Outremer AD 1187-1344 (Warrior): David Nicolle, Christa Hook: Books[/ame] [SIZE=2][B]The Swiss at war 1300-1500 [/B](this one was a real eye-opener) [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Swiss-War-1300-1500-Men-At-Arms-94/dp/0850453348/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232221970&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: The Swiss at War 1300-1500 (Men-At-Arms Series, 94): Douglas Miller, Gerry Embleton: Books[/ame] [/SIZE][B]German Medieval Armies 1000-1300 AD[/B] [ame="http://www.amazon.com/German-Medieval-Armies-1000-1300-Men-at-Arms/dp/1855326574/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b"]Amazon.com: German Medieval Armies 1000-1300 (Men-at-Arms): Christopher Gravett, Graham Turner: Books[/ame] [SIZE=2] [/SIZE][B]Landsknecht Soldier[/B] [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Landsknecht-Soldier-1486-1560-Warrior-Richards/dp/1841762431/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232221068&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: Landsknecht Soldier 1486-1560 (Warrior): John Richards, Gerry Embleton: Books[/ame] [SIZE=2] [/SIZE][B]Teutonic Knight 1190-1500[/B] [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Teutonic-Knight-1190-1561-David-Nicolle/dp/1846030757/ref=pd_sim_b_1"]Amazon.com: Teutonic Knight: 1190-1561 (Warrior): David Nicolle, Graham Turner: Books[/ame] [B]The Hussite Wars 1419-1436[/B] [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Hussite-Wars-1419-36-Men-at-Arms/dp/1841766658/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232222018&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: The Hussite Wars 1419-36 (Men-at-Arms): Stephen Turnbull, Angus Mcbride: Books[/ame] [B]Medieval Russian Armies 1250-1500[/B] [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Russian-Armies-1250-Men-At-Arms/dp/1841762342/ref=pd_sim_b_4"]Amazon.com: Medieval Russian Armies 1250 - 1500 (Men-At-Arms): David Nicolle, Angus Mcbride: Books[/ame] [B] French Medieval Armies 1000-1300 AD[/B] [ame="http://www.amazon.com/French-Medieval-Armies-1000-1300-Men-at-Arms/dp/1855321270/ref=pd_sim_b_1"]Amazon.com: French Medieval Armies 1000-1300 (Men-at-Arms): David Nicolle, Angus Mcbride: Books[/ame] [B]Viking Hersir 793 - 1066 AD[/B] [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Viking-Hersir-793-1066-AD-Warrior/dp/1855323184/ref=pd_sim_b_6"]Amazon.com: Viking Hersir 793-1066 AD (Warrior): Mark Harrison, Gerry Embleton: Books[/ame] [B]The Normans [/B] [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Normans-Elite-David-Nicolle/dp/0850457297/ref=pd_sim_b_njs_2"]Amazon.com: The Normans (Elite): David Nicolle, Angus Mcbride: Books[/ame] In about the mid-range, you have popular historians. One of my favorites is [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewart_Oakeshott"][B]Ewart Oakeshott[/B][/URL], the remarkable amateur sword collector who totally revolutionized our understanding of what Medieval swords were actually like, gave us the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakeshott_typology"]Oakeshott Typology[/URL] and indirectly led to the rediscovery of European Martial Arts. He is most famous for his books on swords (which I'll be blogging about later in this thread) but he also did some nice little books on knights, two in particular relavent to this topic: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Knight-His-Horse-Ewart-Oakeshott/dp/0802312977/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232220692&sr=8-1"]A Knight and his Horse[/ame] is a particularly good reference for this subject as is [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Knight-His-Armor-Ewart-Oakeshott/dp/0802313299/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_c"] A knight and his armor [/ame] For more serious academic stuff... The ultimate reference on the martial arts of this period is still Sydney Anglo's superb [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Arts-Renaissance-Europe/dp/0300083521/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232221462&sr=1-1"]The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe [/ame] which is an excellent overview of all the various Fechtbuchs and the close up view they give us on individual combat, judicial combat and duels in this period. [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Arts-Renaissance-Europe/dp/0300083521/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232221462&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe: Sydney Anglo: Books[/ame] For warfare on a more strategic / operational level, I like Hans Delbruck as a general source on Medieval combat. Delbruck wrote about 100 years ago and some people now dispute some of his figures on the number of combatants in various famous battles, but most of his analysis still stands. This is a pretty heavy read mind you, 700 something pages, but vastly better written than most academic works I've read, it's very clear minded well structured analysis really helped me put the overall picture of what medieval combat was like into perspective. I've never read his other two books (Classical and early modern era respectively) but I'd like to. Anyway this is the one I read: [SIZE=2] Medieval Warfare: History of the Art of War, Volume III [/SIZE] [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Warfare-History-Art-War/dp/0803265859/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232220799&sr=1-2"]Amazon.com: Medieval Warfare: History of the Art of War, Volume III (History of the Art of War, Vol 3): Hans Delbruck, Walter J. Renfroe Jr.: Books[/ame] Anyway, that's a start. I'll fill in a few more later as I think of them. G. [/QUOTE]
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