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Homebrew Eberron Brainstorm: The Hearts of the Progenitors
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<blockquote data-quote="Levistus's_Leviathan" data-source="post: 8439399" data-attributes="member: 7023887"><p>Thank you for doing this! I already have answers for a lot of these, but some of them definitely need/needed a bit more ironing out. I hope I can satisfyingly answer them below. </p><p></p><p>Yes, but not necessarily. In my Eberron, yes, the Progenitors did objectively exist, but it's not necessary to the story. If one were to use a similar idea to this one without having the Progenitor Myth be more or less true in their Eberron, they could just play it as a natural process of the universe, just like how the Planes naturally affect the world of Eberron more or less as time goes by. In this case, yes, the examples where Siberys or Khyber is reborn would be excluded, but the Hearts of the Progenitors could function as a plot device just as easily. The Progenitors being real is true in my Eberron (where they are the same core entities as Tiamat, Bahamut, and Sardior), but it isn't necessary to the "Hearts of the Progenitor Dragons" idea. </p><p></p><p>It's a way for the spirits of the Progenitor Dragons to influence the world of Eberron in some way while still being confined to their current states of being (Khyber being imprisoned, Eberron being dormant, Siberys being shattered). The Draconic Prophecy was created by Siberys, so the Heart of Siberys is his way of driving the Prophecy towards his "goal" (protecting Eberron from the Multiverse and being reborn to aid in this). The other Hearts largely exist as a consequence of that. Basically, Siberys chooses a Heart to further the Draconic Prophecy, so the balancing force of the world requires that Eberron and Khyber get to do the same. So Eberron and Khyber also choose Huge or bigger Dragonshards of their type to become their Hearts, which allows them to manipulate the world in an increased manner for as long as their Heart still has its power. </p><p></p><p>So Khyber gets the opportunity to try and escape her bonds, Eberron gets to try and counter that act and balance out the Eberronian Planes, and Siberys gets a chance to protect the Eberronian Planes from the D&D Multiverse (as Rising from the Last War states that Eberron is inside the Great Wheel cosmology, secluded from the other worlds by the Ring of Siberys). </p><p></p><p>In my Eberron, they're still alive, just very, very dormant. If you've read the Heroes of Olympus by Rick Riordan, they're basically as conscious as Gaea is up until the last book, and Siberys is even less lucid than they are (due to him being dead and all). </p><p></p><p>In my Eberron, while the Progenitors may be dead or unconscious, they're still basically gods, and so they never truly die or lose consciousness. This tiny remnant of their minds that is still conscious is what allows them to choose a Heart and have a tiny bit of foresight to see how choosing a specific Heart would affect the world. They're just trying to play their cards right and effect Eberron in a way that furthers their agenda. </p><p></p><p>They don't have to, actually. In my Eberron, the Heart of Siberys has been Siberys' chosen Heart for several hundred years now. It just was floating around in the Ring of Siberys protecting the planet from forces in the non-Eberronian D&D Multiverse. It just recently came into play because it was accidentally knocked out of the sky (major plot point that I won't get into). </p><p></p><p>Changing the Draconic Prophecy to suit their goals. Khyber does it to try and destroy the world and be released from her prison, Eberron does it to maintain the status quo and help life on her, and Siberys does it to prevent extraplanar invasion and to try to be reborn. </p><p></p><p>Almost definitely out of a mix of coincidence and scheming. As mentioned above, all of the Progenitors are nearly unconscious, more like forces of the world with a tiny bit of sentience in their current states. Khyber has three things she considers when choosing a Heart, as follows:</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Is the Dragonshard big enough? It has to be Huge or bigger, remember. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Is this the best chance she has at affecting the Draconic Prophecy towards her goals? </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Is there any way that she can get an edge over the choices that the other Hearts, unbalancing things towards her? </li> </ol><p>In this case, the dragonshard in which the largest portion of Rak Tulkhesh's power was trapped just happened to be one of the few Dragonshards on/under Khorvaire that was of proper size. Additionally, it was in an easily accessible location (the crypt of a renowned/sacred dragon in the Shadow Marches), and also housed an additional means for her to try and further her agenda. As stated in the first post, if this dragonshard is broken or if its power is used up, Rak Tulkhesh is freed and the world almost definitely ends. Making this specific Dragonshard be her Heart just makes it more likely for it to be shattered for its power or used in an Eldritch Machine, which could end up either releasing Khyber or Rak Tulkhesh. Khyber's spirit would prefer if Khyber were to escape, but would settle for Rak Tulkhesh. </p><p></p><p>It's not really Khyber residing inside of the Heart, it's more that the Heart is just chosen to be more important and powerful than others of the same size. It doesn't have a problem squeezing more energy into the Dragonshard because it's godlike in power. It doesn't need to cram/squeeze energy into it, it just manipulates the fundamental nature of the Dragonshard to make it more powerful. </p><p></p><p>Yes, Rak Tulkhesh was trapped inside the dragonshard before it was chosen, and has been trapped inside this dragonshard ever since the Demon Overlords were imprisoned at the end of the <a href="https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Age_of_Demons" target="_blank">Age of Demons</a>. </p><p></p><p>If Mordakhesh had found out (before my party banished him back to Khyber and re-imprisoned him there), he would have tried to break the Heart of Khyber to unleash Rak Tulkhesh. The same applies to other followers of Rak Tulkhesh. However, they didn't know (thank goodness my party didn't give away that piece of information when they were in the Demon Wastes! That would have been disastrous!), and so they haven't come into play yet. If they somehow find out, or if any member from the Lords of Dust were to discover the existence and position of the Heart of Khyber, they would certainly try to retrieve it and probably attempt to create one of the Eldritch Machines that I listed above in order to free Khyber or the Demon Overlords. </p><p></p><p>Yes, Vvaraak knew. </p><p></p><p>Oh, they're involved. When the party was on a mission, they met a Silver Dragon member of the Chamber, told her about the piece of the Draconic Prophecy that they found on the Heart of Siberys and where they found it, and she got involved and reported back to Argonnessen to tell the rest of the Chamber. They're involved, and are trying to get their hands on the Hearts of the Progenitors (they want to restore the Heart of Siberys to the Ring of Siberys to allow it to continue to protect the world from outside invasions, want to use the Heart of Eberron for their own purposes, possibly ascending to godhood or become Great Wyrms, and want to safeguard the Heart of Khyber from their enemies). </p><p></p><p>So, yeah, you're right. They definitely want to keep them out of the hands of mortals, and are helping the party right now. </p><p></p><p>Because the Progenitors have their powers and are more or less stuck with them, I guess? I also prefer the idea of mixing and matching the Hearts in specific uses and Eldritch Machines to make different things possible. Khyber is destructive, so her Heart is going to be tied to destruction. The same thing applies to the other Progenitors. </p><p></p><p>Do you have any suggestions on how else to do it? </p><p></p><p>In my campaign, the Heart of Khyber was sentient, but that was because of Rak Tulkhesh being imprisoned inside of it. The Heart of Eberron will be <em>slightly </em>sentient, but not actually a true Sentient Magic Item in 5e terms. The Heart of Siberys is the least sentient due to the fact that Siberys is mostly dead. </p><p></p><p>They're immune to most types of damage in my campaign. Like, immune to Fire, Acid, Poison, Psychic, Lightning, Cold, Necrotic, Radiant, Piercing, and nonmagical Bludgeoning damage (and the weapon has to be both magical and made of adamantine in order to do anything, and it's resistant to <em>all </em>slashing damage). They also have a ton of hit points. They're not easy to break, but not super impossible, either.</p><p></p><p>Because it's not easy to do so. It requires you to have access to all 3 Hearts, the destruction of one of them (which isn't easy), and for you to use up the energy from the Heart of Eberron, and for you to make a specific Eldritch Machine with the purpose of restoring a Progenitor, and for you to be in the right, hostile environment (the center of Khyber for Khyber, the Ring of Siberys for Siberys). And the Eldritch Machine requires all the right materials, many of them have to be from different Planes of Existence or Manifest Zones, they all require some kind of sacrifice, well over 10 million gold pieces worth of semi-mundane materials, and more. </p><p></p><p>They're options, but not easy. Now that I think of it, I think it might require something like 13 Great Wyrms or Demon Overlords to sacrifice themselves, as well as everything I already listed for these requirements. It needs to be ridiculously hard, but not impossible. Close to it, though. That's why it hasn't been done before. </p><p></p><p>Eberron doesn't (which is why I didn't list it as an option in the OP), Khyber definitely does, and Siberys does. </p><p></p><p>That's actually a good idea for a story of a past example! It has probably been attempted before, by the Lords of Dust for Khyber and the Chamber for Siberys, but they failed in some way, possibly through the meddling of the other faction. Maybe even the Silver Flame/Couatls intervened at some point. Or the Giants did, back when they were relevant. </p><p></p><p>Also another good question for a the story of these Hearts. In the OP I hinted at the possibility that something like this is what the Giants used to end the war between them and the Quori. It could also be similar to how the Couatls formed the Silver Flame and imprisoned the Demon Overlords in the first place. Or how the Orcs imprisoned the Daelkyr. Or maybe the Hearts were involved in all of those points in history, with the spirits of the Progenitors nudging the course of history and manipulating the Draconic Prophecy towards their goals, and good barely winning at all of those points. </p><p></p><p>That's why I like this idea I came up with. It has the potential to explain any and all of those, and lets the party feel like they can do the same if they earn it. Want to destroy a moon? Or release a Demon Overlord/Daelkyr? Rid the world of all magic? Turn all dead people into Zombies under your control? Reverse the Mourning? Cover the world in an endless, giant hurricane? Destroy the world and release Khyber? Just use the Hearts of the Progenitors and the right materials/magic, and you can do any of that. </p><p></p><p>This helped. Thanks a lot. I hope this helps you understand it, too.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Levistus's_Leviathan, post: 8439399, member: 7023887"] Thank you for doing this! I already have answers for a lot of these, but some of them definitely need/needed a bit more ironing out. I hope I can satisfyingly answer them below. Yes, but not necessarily. In my Eberron, yes, the Progenitors did objectively exist, but it's not necessary to the story. If one were to use a similar idea to this one without having the Progenitor Myth be more or less true in their Eberron, they could just play it as a natural process of the universe, just like how the Planes naturally affect the world of Eberron more or less as time goes by. In this case, yes, the examples where Siberys or Khyber is reborn would be excluded, but the Hearts of the Progenitors could function as a plot device just as easily. The Progenitors being real is true in my Eberron (where they are the same core entities as Tiamat, Bahamut, and Sardior), but it isn't necessary to the "Hearts of the Progenitor Dragons" idea. It's a way for the spirits of the Progenitor Dragons to influence the world of Eberron in some way while still being confined to their current states of being (Khyber being imprisoned, Eberron being dormant, Siberys being shattered). The Draconic Prophecy was created by Siberys, so the Heart of Siberys is his way of driving the Prophecy towards his "goal" (protecting Eberron from the Multiverse and being reborn to aid in this). The other Hearts largely exist as a consequence of that. Basically, Siberys chooses a Heart to further the Draconic Prophecy, so the balancing force of the world requires that Eberron and Khyber get to do the same. So Eberron and Khyber also choose Huge or bigger Dragonshards of their type to become their Hearts, which allows them to manipulate the world in an increased manner for as long as their Heart still has its power. So Khyber gets the opportunity to try and escape her bonds, Eberron gets to try and counter that act and balance out the Eberronian Planes, and Siberys gets a chance to protect the Eberronian Planes from the D&D Multiverse (as Rising from the Last War states that Eberron is inside the Great Wheel cosmology, secluded from the other worlds by the Ring of Siberys). In my Eberron, they're still alive, just very, very dormant. If you've read the Heroes of Olympus by Rick Riordan, they're basically as conscious as Gaea is up until the last book, and Siberys is even less lucid than they are (due to him being dead and all). In my Eberron, while the Progenitors may be dead or unconscious, they're still basically gods, and so they never truly die or lose consciousness. This tiny remnant of their minds that is still conscious is what allows them to choose a Heart and have a tiny bit of foresight to see how choosing a specific Heart would affect the world. They're just trying to play their cards right and effect Eberron in a way that furthers their agenda. They don't have to, actually. In my Eberron, the Heart of Siberys has been Siberys' chosen Heart for several hundred years now. It just was floating around in the Ring of Siberys protecting the planet from forces in the non-Eberronian D&D Multiverse. It just recently came into play because it was accidentally knocked out of the sky (major plot point that I won't get into). Changing the Draconic Prophecy to suit their goals. Khyber does it to try and destroy the world and be released from her prison, Eberron does it to maintain the status quo and help life on her, and Siberys does it to prevent extraplanar invasion and to try to be reborn. Almost definitely out of a mix of coincidence and scheming. As mentioned above, all of the Progenitors are nearly unconscious, more like forces of the world with a tiny bit of sentience in their current states. Khyber has three things she considers when choosing a Heart, as follows: [LIST=1] [*]Is the Dragonshard big enough? It has to be Huge or bigger, remember. [*]Is this the best chance she has at affecting the Draconic Prophecy towards her goals? [*]Is there any way that she can get an edge over the choices that the other Hearts, unbalancing things towards her? [/LIST] In this case, the dragonshard in which the largest portion of Rak Tulkhesh's power was trapped just happened to be one of the few Dragonshards on/under Khorvaire that was of proper size. Additionally, it was in an easily accessible location (the crypt of a renowned/sacred dragon in the Shadow Marches), and also housed an additional means for her to try and further her agenda. As stated in the first post, if this dragonshard is broken or if its power is used up, Rak Tulkhesh is freed and the world almost definitely ends. Making this specific Dragonshard be her Heart just makes it more likely for it to be shattered for its power or used in an Eldritch Machine, which could end up either releasing Khyber or Rak Tulkhesh. Khyber's spirit would prefer if Khyber were to escape, but would settle for Rak Tulkhesh. It's not really Khyber residing inside of the Heart, it's more that the Heart is just chosen to be more important and powerful than others of the same size. It doesn't have a problem squeezing more energy into the Dragonshard because it's godlike in power. It doesn't need to cram/squeeze energy into it, it just manipulates the fundamental nature of the Dragonshard to make it more powerful. Yes, Rak Tulkhesh was trapped inside the dragonshard before it was chosen, and has been trapped inside this dragonshard ever since the Demon Overlords were imprisoned at the end of the [URL='https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Age_of_Demons']Age of Demons[/URL]. If Mordakhesh had found out (before my party banished him back to Khyber and re-imprisoned him there), he would have tried to break the Heart of Khyber to unleash Rak Tulkhesh. The same applies to other followers of Rak Tulkhesh. However, they didn't know (thank goodness my party didn't give away that piece of information when they were in the Demon Wastes! That would have been disastrous!), and so they haven't come into play yet. If they somehow find out, or if any member from the Lords of Dust were to discover the existence and position of the Heart of Khyber, they would certainly try to retrieve it and probably attempt to create one of the Eldritch Machines that I listed above in order to free Khyber or the Demon Overlords. Yes, Vvaraak knew. Oh, they're involved. When the party was on a mission, they met a Silver Dragon member of the Chamber, told her about the piece of the Draconic Prophecy that they found on the Heart of Siberys and where they found it, and she got involved and reported back to Argonnessen to tell the rest of the Chamber. They're involved, and are trying to get their hands on the Hearts of the Progenitors (they want to restore the Heart of Siberys to the Ring of Siberys to allow it to continue to protect the world from outside invasions, want to use the Heart of Eberron for their own purposes, possibly ascending to godhood or become Great Wyrms, and want to safeguard the Heart of Khyber from their enemies). So, yeah, you're right. They definitely want to keep them out of the hands of mortals, and are helping the party right now. Because the Progenitors have their powers and are more or less stuck with them, I guess? I also prefer the idea of mixing and matching the Hearts in specific uses and Eldritch Machines to make different things possible. Khyber is destructive, so her Heart is going to be tied to destruction. The same thing applies to the other Progenitors. Do you have any suggestions on how else to do it? In my campaign, the Heart of Khyber was sentient, but that was because of Rak Tulkhesh being imprisoned inside of it. The Heart of Eberron will be [I]slightly [/I]sentient, but not actually a true Sentient Magic Item in 5e terms. The Heart of Siberys is the least sentient due to the fact that Siberys is mostly dead. They're immune to most types of damage in my campaign. Like, immune to Fire, Acid, Poison, Psychic, Lightning, Cold, Necrotic, Radiant, Piercing, and nonmagical Bludgeoning damage (and the weapon has to be both magical and made of adamantine in order to do anything, and it's resistant to [I]all [/I]slashing damage). They also have a ton of hit points. They're not easy to break, but not super impossible, either. Because it's not easy to do so. It requires you to have access to all 3 Hearts, the destruction of one of them (which isn't easy), and for you to use up the energy from the Heart of Eberron, and for you to make a specific Eldritch Machine with the purpose of restoring a Progenitor, and for you to be in the right, hostile environment (the center of Khyber for Khyber, the Ring of Siberys for Siberys). And the Eldritch Machine requires all the right materials, many of them have to be from different Planes of Existence or Manifest Zones, they all require some kind of sacrifice, well over 10 million gold pieces worth of semi-mundane materials, and more. They're options, but not easy. Now that I think of it, I think it might require something like 13 Great Wyrms or Demon Overlords to sacrifice themselves, as well as everything I already listed for these requirements. It needs to be ridiculously hard, but not impossible. Close to it, though. That's why it hasn't been done before. Eberron doesn't (which is why I didn't list it as an option in the OP), Khyber definitely does, and Siberys does. That's actually a good idea for a story of a past example! It has probably been attempted before, by the Lords of Dust for Khyber and the Chamber for Siberys, but they failed in some way, possibly through the meddling of the other faction. Maybe even the Silver Flame/Couatls intervened at some point. Or the Giants did, back when they were relevant. Also another good question for a the story of these Hearts. In the OP I hinted at the possibility that something like this is what the Giants used to end the war between them and the Quori. It could also be similar to how the Couatls formed the Silver Flame and imprisoned the Demon Overlords in the first place. Or how the Orcs imprisoned the Daelkyr. Or maybe the Hearts were involved in all of those points in history, with the spirits of the Progenitors nudging the course of history and manipulating the Draconic Prophecy towards their goals, and good barely winning at all of those points. That's why I like this idea I came up with. It has the potential to explain any and all of those, and lets the party feel like they can do the same if they earn it. Want to destroy a moon? Or release a Demon Overlord/Daelkyr? Rid the world of all magic? Turn all dead people into Zombies under your control? Reverse the Mourning? Cover the world in an endless, giant hurricane? Destroy the world and release Khyber? Just use the Hearts of the Progenitors and the right materials/magic, and you can do any of that. This helped. Thanks a lot. I hope this helps you understand it, too. [/QUOTE]
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