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How a ****ing cantrip exterminates an entire school of magic. NO MORE OF THAT!
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<blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 5713146" data-attributes="member: 29252"><p>Ah... you're looking at from 3-9 targets to distinguish from, which aren't generally going to be nicely lined up. Try tossing out a handful of identical marbles in close proximity to each other and then telling someone which one you want in a handful of seconds in such a way that the other person gets it right reliably. And, of course, there's other methods for making sure that the only aura that registers on you is one of minor illusion, so even the Wizard can't tell... despite the little issue that several of your things should have Transmutation, Abjuration, or Evocation auras. Incidentally, they're also Illusion spells.</p><p>Project Image. Sure, it's useful to know what you're facing isn't real... but a critter produced by Greater Shadow Conjouration has the same aura as does a projected image... and both can kill you. Just because it's not real doesn't mean you can ignore it. It's also a really fun way of shooting people from around corners. Detect Magic penetrates barriers. How do you tell the difference between someone who's wearing a hat of disguise, and someone who has an Elixir of Swimming in his pocket? You just learn that there's an illusory effect there. Oh, wait: Part of that depends on the definition of pinpointing an effect.... DM's call... so if it's bothering the DM....</p><p></p><p>Ah, you misunderstand. I didn't say it doesn't justify a save, I said it doesn't necessarily permit an auto-pass. </p><p>Depends on your caster level. In general, you can likely get by with just one or two castings per person per day. And it's a first level spell. </p><p></p><p>But really, if someone is depending on Detect Magic to tell that it's a Phantom Trap? You can be downright evil. There is a Phantom Trap on door # 1. Door # 2 has a mechanical trap, with magic aura on it to make it seem illusory. Door # 3 has a Phantom Trap (which does affect an object), with Magic Aura to remove the magical aura. Door # 4 has a mechanical trap. Door # 5 has a Magic Aura spell cast on it, to make it have an aura of faint Evocation. Door # 6 has a Fireball trap. Door # 7 has a Fireball Trap and a Magic Aura spell to make it seem nonmagical. Door # 8 is completely mundane.</p><p></p><p>Detect Magic isn't going to tell you which is which. Doors 1 & 2 detect as illusion; Doors 5 & 6 detect as evocation. Doors 3, 4, 7, and 8 don't register. The safe ones are 1, 3, 5, and 8 (fully half of them). A skilled Rogue will tell you that doors 5 and 8 are safe. </p><p></p><p>Good luck distinguishing. You're going to need to expend more resources to tell which doors are safe and which aren't without actually, you know, trying them. </p><p></p><p></p><p>That's because you're not used to playing chess in this manner. The basic method above for Phantom Trap? There's related methods (using Magic Aura, Misdirection, or both) that work for Illusory Script, Illusory Wall, Disguise Self (and related), Invisibility (and related), and even the Image line. OK, yes, it's really tricky to make a Minor Image not register as illusory. But it's not all that hard to give a real creature an aura of Illusion. If the party is completely ignoring something in battle because Mr. Wizard says it's illusory... and it's not... well... they're not going to be trusting what Mr. Wizard says for very much longer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not everybody, no. But there's more than one way to go about it.</p><p></p><p>I didn't say they're battling it out. I said they're playing chess. If you don't have someone casting Detect Magic... then clearly, the only caster is the illusionist making the illusions.</p><p></p><p>If you do have someone casting Detect Magic in such a way as to try and foil the illusions... then clearly you've got two opposed casters. Are the battling? Not necessarily directly. But they are attempting to counter one another.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack Simth, post: 5713146, member: 29252"] Ah... you're looking at from 3-9 targets to distinguish from, which aren't generally going to be nicely lined up. Try tossing out a handful of identical marbles in close proximity to each other and then telling someone which one you want in a handful of seconds in such a way that the other person gets it right reliably. And, of course, there's other methods for making sure that the only aura that registers on you is one of minor illusion, so even the Wizard can't tell... despite the little issue that several of your things should have Transmutation, Abjuration, or Evocation auras. Incidentally, they're also Illusion spells. Project Image. Sure, it's useful to know what you're facing isn't real... but a critter produced by Greater Shadow Conjouration has the same aura as does a projected image... and both can kill you. Just because it's not real doesn't mean you can ignore it. It's also a really fun way of shooting people from around corners. Detect Magic penetrates barriers. How do you tell the difference between someone who's wearing a hat of disguise, and someone who has an Elixir of Swimming in his pocket? You just learn that there's an illusory effect there. Oh, wait: Part of that depends on the definition of pinpointing an effect.... DM's call... so if it's bothering the DM.... Ah, you misunderstand. I didn't say it doesn't justify a save, I said it doesn't necessarily permit an auto-pass. Depends on your caster level. In general, you can likely get by with just one or two castings per person per day. And it's a first level spell. But really, if someone is depending on Detect Magic to tell that it's a Phantom Trap? You can be downright evil. There is a Phantom Trap on door # 1. Door # 2 has a mechanical trap, with magic aura on it to make it seem illusory. Door # 3 has a Phantom Trap (which does affect an object), with Magic Aura to remove the magical aura. Door # 4 has a mechanical trap. Door # 5 has a Magic Aura spell cast on it, to make it have an aura of faint Evocation. Door # 6 has a Fireball trap. Door # 7 has a Fireball Trap and a Magic Aura spell to make it seem nonmagical. Door # 8 is completely mundane. Detect Magic isn't going to tell you which is which. Doors 1 & 2 detect as illusion; Doors 5 & 6 detect as evocation. Doors 3, 4, 7, and 8 don't register. The safe ones are 1, 3, 5, and 8 (fully half of them). A skilled Rogue will tell you that doors 5 and 8 are safe. Good luck distinguishing. You're going to need to expend more resources to tell which doors are safe and which aren't without actually, you know, trying them. That's because you're not used to playing chess in this manner. The basic method above for Phantom Trap? There's related methods (using Magic Aura, Misdirection, or both) that work for Illusory Script, Illusory Wall, Disguise Self (and related), Invisibility (and related), and even the Image line. OK, yes, it's really tricky to make a Minor Image not register as illusory. But it's not all that hard to give a real creature an aura of Illusion. If the party is completely ignoring something in battle because Mr. Wizard says it's illusory... and it's not... well... they're not going to be trusting what Mr. Wizard says for very much longer. Not everybody, no. But there's more than one way to go about it. I didn't say they're battling it out. I said they're playing chess. If you don't have someone casting Detect Magic... then clearly, the only caster is the illusionist making the illusions. If you do have someone casting Detect Magic in such a way as to try and foil the illusions... then clearly you've got two opposed casters. Are the battling? Not necessarily directly. But they are attempting to counter one another. [/QUOTE]
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