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How a ****ing cantrip exterminates an entire school of magic. NO MORE OF THAT!
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<blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 5723499" data-attributes="member: 95493"><p>The reason I say "why isnt transmutation" is because simply having illusions not register as illusions is a trait that no other school gets. Especially when many schools (or spells within them) don't have long durations and yet DM can still find (sometimes lingering) auras associated with them.</p><p></p><p>It is a 0 level spell that purposely ONLY gives you the ability to tell the difference between a spell being an illusion and it being conjuration (for example). The spell doesn't give a bonus, nor a free save, nor an automatic save against the school anymore than knowing the spell type that wizard is throwing at you is evocation and getting a bonus to your reflex save against fireball.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I continually forget how badly sarcasm or tone in general comes off on forums. I was merely pointing out that illusionists can be VERY effective. What I gave you wasn't from the CharOps boards though it likely belonged there. It was a build a friend of mine used IN GAME and part of my lack of sympathy for illusionists.</p><p></p><p>The same "friend" ruined psionics, warblades and warlocks for me too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It seems I remember you making this allegation before and then (as now) the person said, "actually I love Pathfinder". I find it to be an excellent game, well tested and well balanced.</p><p></p><p>In pathfinder, casters seem to have something better to do with their time than constantly casting DM. They don't walk around town DM everything, they don't use it when first journeying into a dungeon, they don't have time to use it in combat. In fact they only ever seem to use it when identifying something <u>when there is a reason to</u> or when they need to figure out if an object (equipment) is magical when it comes to loot. At all other times they have something better to do.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I've played a MT and yes he was lacking at the first few levels but only because he lost so much in multiclassing. When I played one at higher levels, about 15 until epic 21/22, he was amazing because he was a double caster. When MT is used in gestalting they are/should be outright banned.</p><p></p><p>When it comes to warlocks, they are very useful because of the amount of things they can just keep doing throughout a dungeon crawl or that they can UMD very effectively when in an urban setting. Both of these traits are only really useful at lower levels when their power isn't stacked against the wizard using Wish.</p><p></p><p>Mind you, as I have repeatedly said, at higher levels wizards have many other spells that leave DM in the dust including true sight, arcane sight, see invisibility and permanency which make DM (and this issue) irrelevant. So perhaps your point was lost on me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This was one of my suggestions a while ago but it only works if you re-examine the entire school of magic and fix it as a whole, DM has very little effect if the school was better.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Most everything I was going to say has been already talked about already. I just wanted to add...</p><p></p><p>The 1st level mage must have better duties than spend one of his three, ten minute maximum, <strong>concentration</strong> spells for no reason. If there is a reason then by all means. If the illusionist is defeated this will be the least of the reasons. Poor bluff check, poor excuse/lie, poor illusory double (wrong details), unfortunately bumping into someone, lack of proper information, uncooperative guards, guard captain, or even prisoner are ALL more likely to foil the illusionist than the off chance a 1st level wizard will happen to spend 3 rounds staring at the illusion and then making the spellcraft check to tell there is AN (which?) illusion at work for no reason.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tovec, post: 5723499, member: 95493"] The reason I say "why isnt transmutation" is because simply having illusions not register as illusions is a trait that no other school gets. Especially when many schools (or spells within them) don't have long durations and yet DM can still find (sometimes lingering) auras associated with them. It is a 0 level spell that purposely ONLY gives you the ability to tell the difference between a spell being an illusion and it being conjuration (for example). The spell doesn't give a bonus, nor a free save, nor an automatic save against the school anymore than knowing the spell type that wizard is throwing at you is evocation and getting a bonus to your reflex save against fireball. I continually forget how badly sarcasm or tone in general comes off on forums. I was merely pointing out that illusionists can be VERY effective. What I gave you wasn't from the CharOps boards though it likely belonged there. It was a build a friend of mine used IN GAME and part of my lack of sympathy for illusionists. The same "friend" ruined psionics, warblades and warlocks for me too. It seems I remember you making this allegation before and then (as now) the person said, "actually I love Pathfinder". I find it to be an excellent game, well tested and well balanced. In pathfinder, casters seem to have something better to do with their time than constantly casting DM. They don't walk around town DM everything, they don't use it when first journeying into a dungeon, they don't have time to use it in combat. In fact they only ever seem to use it when identifying something [U]when there is a reason to[/U] or when they need to figure out if an object (equipment) is magical when it comes to loot. At all other times they have something better to do. I've played a MT and yes he was lacking at the first few levels but only because he lost so much in multiclassing. When I played one at higher levels, about 15 until epic 21/22, he was amazing because he was a double caster. When MT is used in gestalting they are/should be outright banned. When it comes to warlocks, they are very useful because of the amount of things they can just keep doing throughout a dungeon crawl or that they can UMD very effectively when in an urban setting. Both of these traits are only really useful at lower levels when their power isn't stacked against the wizard using Wish. Mind you, as I have repeatedly said, at higher levels wizards have many other spells that leave DM in the dust including true sight, arcane sight, see invisibility and permanency which make DM (and this issue) irrelevant. So perhaps your point was lost on me. This was one of my suggestions a while ago but it only works if you re-examine the entire school of magic and fix it as a whole, DM has very little effect if the school was better. Most everything I was going to say has been already talked about already. I just wanted to add... The 1st level mage must have better duties than spend one of his three, ten minute maximum, [B]concentration[/B] spells for no reason. If there is a reason then by all means. If the illusionist is defeated this will be the least of the reasons. Poor bluff check, poor excuse/lie, poor illusory double (wrong details), unfortunately bumping into someone, lack of proper information, uncooperative guards, guard captain, or even prisoner are ALL more likely to foil the illusionist than the off chance a 1st level wizard will happen to spend 3 rounds staring at the illusion and then making the spellcraft check to tell there is AN (which?) illusion at work for no reason. [/QUOTE]
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