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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5984137" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Balance is critical in supporting a breadth of play styles, too. Take the 5mwd L&L, for instance, to kludge the balance issues that mixing old-fashioned Vancian casters with old-fashioned power-less fighters brings, it prescribed a fixed pacing of X encounters (or rounds, rather), per day, greatly narrowing the range of play styles that 5e will be able to support, due to pacing, alone.</p><p></p><p>Funny that pre-Essentials didn't have much in the way of balance problems, then, isn't it? And WotC was pretty good about nerfing over-powered options as they cropped up in 4e, too. The imbalance introduced with daily-less classes in 4e is simple, numeric and demonstrable, it's the same phenomenon that causes (much more pronounced) imbalances with Vancian casters vs non-casters in 3.x and earlier. Heck, even Mike Mearls copped to it the afore-mentioned L&L. </p><p></p><p>Because 4e classes had much less of their power tied up in their dailies than prior ed casters did, the problem Essentials introduced is not nearly so bad, though. If 5e were taking a similar approach, and giving Vancian casters far fewer and far less potent daily spells, it would at least be a smaller problem - but all 5e seems to have done so far is add fairly potent at-wills over and above 3e-style Vancian casting. </p><p></p><p>I can't agree. Flogging balance into a broken structure with playtesting, nerfing, and kludging has never worked (at best, it results in a very narrow, often rather odd style of play in which some semblance of balance can be achieved), while building balance into a common structure from the ground up did. Sure, a lot of folks hated the (balanced) result, but it still worked.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5984137, member: 996"] Balance is critical in supporting a breadth of play styles, too. Take the 5mwd L&L, for instance, to kludge the balance issues that mixing old-fashioned Vancian casters with old-fashioned power-less fighters brings, it prescribed a fixed pacing of X encounters (or rounds, rather), per day, greatly narrowing the range of play styles that 5e will be able to support, due to pacing, alone. Funny that pre-Essentials didn't have much in the way of balance problems, then, isn't it? And WotC was pretty good about nerfing over-powered options as they cropped up in 4e, too. The imbalance introduced with daily-less classes in 4e is simple, numeric and demonstrable, it's the same phenomenon that causes (much more pronounced) imbalances with Vancian casters vs non-casters in 3.x and earlier. Heck, even Mike Mearls copped to it the afore-mentioned L&L. Because 4e classes had much less of their power tied up in their dailies than prior ed casters did, the problem Essentials introduced is not nearly so bad, though. If 5e were taking a similar approach, and giving Vancian casters far fewer and far less potent daily spells, it would at least be a smaller problem - but all 5e seems to have done so far is add fairly potent at-wills over and above 3e-style Vancian casting. I can't agree. Flogging balance into a broken structure with playtesting, nerfing, and kludging has never worked (at best, it results in a very narrow, often rather odd style of play in which some semblance of balance can be achieved), while building balance into a common structure from the ground up did. Sure, a lot of folks hated the (balanced) result, but it still worked. [/QUOTE]
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