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How Darkness helps the dungeon crawl experience immensely.
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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8662956" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>Right. And I'm saying those trade-offs are not equivalent to each other. Especially if you tell them you're not going to handwave exploration, weight carried, light sources, etc.</p><p></p><p>A different damage type</p><p>vs</p><p>Never worrying about light sources and all the problems that go with those light sources. </p><p></p><p>Those things are not equivalent. That's not a meaningful choice. It is technically a trade-off, yes. But it's like asking someone if they want $1 or $10,000. Yes, it's technically a question, and technically they could opt for $1, but they're not going to. So pretending that's really a serious head-scratcher of a choice to spend time deeply considering is silly.</p><p></p><p>It's not that easy. A few pages of house rules to do so. Ban a dozen spells. Ban a half-dozen magic items. House rule rangers. House rule outlander. I've tried. It's more trouble than it's worth. Easier to just play a game designed to do it from the start. Like an TSR edition of D&D or a retro-clone.</p><p></p><p>Of course. To each their own. But a fair amount of people like that style.</p><p></p><p>Cost. Limited use. Carried separately in one hand. Weight carried. Chance of it being blown out. Dropped. Oil spilling. Flasks breaking. Oil igniting. Light source can ignite other things, intentionally or accidentally.</p><p>vs</p><p>No cost. Infinite use. No carried separately (cast on staff, etc). No weight. No chance of being blown out. No chance of being dropped. No oil to spill. No flask to break. No fuel to burn accidentally. Light source cannot ignite other things. </p><p></p><p>If you're tracking light sources, there's no contest. None.</p><p></p><p>I've had players assume that every dungeon will simply be lit permanently with infinite ever-burning torches. They legit assumed that every dungeon would just have torches in sconces at all times, in every room and every corridor. When I told them that wasn't the case, the players groaned, and the characters went back to town to load up on light sources. You know, despite me telling them upfront they'd need to bring their own light.</p><p></p><p>Have you seen the death & dying rules? Yeah, it's basically guaranteed that everyone lives. Unless the referee goes out of their way to kill off PCs or the players make a long series of really bad mistakes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8662956, member: 86653"] Right. And I'm saying those trade-offs are not equivalent to each other. Especially if you tell them you're not going to handwave exploration, weight carried, light sources, etc. A different damage type vs Never worrying about light sources and all the problems that go with those light sources. Those things are not equivalent. That's not a meaningful choice. It is technically a trade-off, yes. But it's like asking someone if they want $1 or $10,000. Yes, it's technically a question, and technically they could opt for $1, but they're not going to. So pretending that's really a serious head-scratcher of a choice to spend time deeply considering is silly. It's not that easy. A few pages of house rules to do so. Ban a dozen spells. Ban a half-dozen magic items. House rule rangers. House rule outlander. I've tried. It's more trouble than it's worth. Easier to just play a game designed to do it from the start. Like an TSR edition of D&D or a retro-clone. Of course. To each their own. But a fair amount of people like that style. Cost. Limited use. Carried separately in one hand. Weight carried. Chance of it being blown out. Dropped. Oil spilling. Flasks breaking. Oil igniting. Light source can ignite other things, intentionally or accidentally. vs No cost. Infinite use. No carried separately (cast on staff, etc). No weight. No chance of being blown out. No chance of being dropped. No oil to spill. No flask to break. No fuel to burn accidentally. Light source cannot ignite other things. If you're tracking light sources, there's no contest. None. I've had players assume that every dungeon will simply be lit permanently with infinite ever-burning torches. They legit assumed that every dungeon would just have torches in sconces at all times, in every room and every corridor. When I told them that wasn't the case, the players groaned, and the characters went back to town to load up on light sources. You know, despite me telling them upfront they'd need to bring their own light. Have you seen the death & dying rules? Yeah, it's basically guaranteed that everyone lives. Unless the referee goes out of their way to kill off PCs or the players make a long series of really bad mistakes. [/QUOTE]
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