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How Do You View The Intelligence Groups Of Eberron?
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<blockquote data-quote="RealAlHazred" data-source="post: 6748744" data-attributes="member: 25818"><p><strong>Originally posted by areleth:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> I think you may be conflating the Shaarat'Khesh and the Taarka'Khesh. To my understanding, the Taarka'Khesh are <em>battlefield</em> scouts. Like tiny Rambos that ride wolves, they provide excellent recon and tactical information to the Goblinoids, but they are not a domestic source of information. If you want to know what the leaders of of your opposing faction are having for breakfast, you send the Silent Knives. If you want to know the tactical disposition of your enemy, you send the Silent Wolves.</p><p></p><p> It is important to note that in 3.5 the Taarka'Khesh were Rangers and Scouts. They're at home in the wilderness, tracking movement and gauging the intention of armed formations. The Shaarat'Khesh are the spies and assassins, so they are the ones I mentioned. They are the ones the Goblinoids would turn to for covert action against the Five Nations, so they are effectively the Goblinoid player in this espionage game.</p><p></p><p> Its certainly true that they would make good use of the ubiquity of Goblin commoners in the cities of the Five Nations to their advantage, but I don't think they have the cultural understanding to really pierce the intelligence networks of the Five Nations. They are trained for inter-Goblinoid conflict, which makes it difficult for them to grasp who in the Five Nations would have the information important to their current task, and what information is important to begin with. Essentially, they're starting off on a blank slate, trying to build an information network and get a sense for how the various intelligence organizations interact with each other. Just because they can steal an important document doesn't mean they know what to do with it. Yet. Once they can get their bearings they'll be a very important player, but as it stands they aren't a major consideration for anything outside Goblinoid matters in my Eberron.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's a good point, though I imagine that means that the Karrns have a rather small net to cast when they're looking to get information of others. I assume Kaius has his own specialized agents, but its likely difficult for him to know when and where to deploy them.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think the Emerald Claw is probably the most dangerous in the short-term, not counting Vol's goals, because they don't really have any need to insure the survival of their nation anymore. Even the Karrnathi patriots who join aren't bound by strict operating procedures that keep Karrnath from being linked to their subversive activities, so the Claw can be as bold and destructive as they want, since no one really has a target to aim at when it comes to dealing with the Claw.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, the Medani talent for counter-spying is why I think the Dark Lanterns are so good at it. For one, Breland has the King's Citadel. While the other nations had their own Citadel agents at the start of the war, Breland had the best facilities and resources for espionage already at their fingertips. More importantly, however, they had detailed information on <em>every other Citadel agent ever trained</em> . They knew the identities of every agent that had defected to their home nation, they knew where every safehouse was and they knew exactly what training enemy agents had and how those agents operated. The intelligence groups built off those former agents were built on tactics the Brelish had already devised counters for, and it took the other nations a long time to really break away from the old Citadel traditions and really get their footing. This is combined with the Medani's own long career of counter-intelligence, and the close relationship between Trelib and Boranel, producing the best counter-spies on the continent. </p><p></p><p> I think the Medani and Dark Lanterns both had something of a focused evolution together, by sharing (at some level) information and training techniques, that led to them being so capable at dealing with other information gathering organizations. Breland took an early lead with counter-intelligence, and then concentrated their efforts toward maintaining that lead. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Working off this, keep in mind that Breland had records on every agent who left to serve another nation. If we think of this intelligence war as a game, then consider that Breland started off seeing much more of the board than anyone else. They knew where all the pieces were, they knew how things connected, and they knew (approximately) just how much the other players knew. They may have had their own Citadel agents, but the other nations were starting off at a significant disadvantage. A disadvantage that Breland would be keen to maintain.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's a good point, and I think that coupled with the inclination of the Brelish military to encourage individual initiative, I would say that the Brelish train there Dark Lanterns to be <em>very</em> self-reliant. A Dark Lantern is thrust into a situation and told to solve it, with whatever tools are available. Considering that Breland is a very industrious nation, the Dark Lanterns are very likely well equipped, but considering the impressive tools their enemies have that the Brelish just can't match, I think there is a high focus on being able to improvise a solution to any situation you encounter, along with a maxim of survival. Because a dead Lantern is of no use to the Crown.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's a good point, the Royal Eyes are very likely the best cultured and educated, and using magic to compensate for fewer numbers is a hallmark of Aundairian tactical doctrine. Especially with its use in scrying, I imagine that the Royal Eyes try to be very 'hands off' in their work. You can't risk your Wizards in a front-line scuffle, and a well trained field agent is too valuable a tool to send into the sewers under Sharn chasing after some Dark Lantern. Usually.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think either of these nations has an intelligence organization that isn't outclassed in most aspects by a foreign power. Not much to speak of outside the Emerald Claw really. The Argentum seems more specialized in acquiring magical items to make up for Thrane's lack of arcane ability.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's an utterly delicious point. In my mind, Cyre was second only to Breland in intelligence work, largely due to their position as the administrative center of Galifar. While they don't have access to the Citadel archives that gave Breland such a huge leg up in espionage, they do have access to critical national secrets of every nation that passed through the administrations of Galifar. Noted arcane projects in Aundair, civil unrest in Karrnath, even major Citadel operations. Where Breland took an early lead by crippling everyone else's intelligence efforts, Cyre started off with tons of national secrets to exploit. As the war went on and their information became dated, Cyre still kept up by fielding extremely well equipped agents. Relying on a smaller number of agents, but that number being very well trained and equipped (with Cyre's huge reserve wealth fitting the bill). Still, I don't think Cyre used its intelligence arm to subvert other nations, but rather to simply gather as much information as possible. Trying to duplicate arcane projects in Aundair and learning Karrnathi battle-plans, getting as much out of their agents as possible without risking them unduly in the field, because much like Aundair's Wizards, Cyre's agents are difficult to replace and carry very expensive equipment.</p><p></p><p>This leads into their current limbo, with Cyran intelligence having information that many nations would gladly kill for, and consequently having to dodge essentially every other intelligence organization on the continent. Its an even bigger problem when, as you said, we account for the fact that the Cyran intelligence agents have no home to have loyalty to, and no love at all for the other four nations. A group of extremely well trained and well equipped people with nothing left to lose and secrets that could reignite the Last War.</p><p></p><p>Oh yeah, that's going to work out <strong>swell</strong>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RealAlHazred, post: 6748744, member: 25818"] [b]Originally posted by areleth:[/b] I think you may be conflating the Shaarat'Khesh and the Taarka'Khesh. To my understanding, the Taarka'Khesh are [i]battlefield[/i] scouts. Like tiny Rambos that ride wolves, they provide excellent recon and tactical information to the Goblinoids, but they are not a domestic source of information. If you want to know what the leaders of of your opposing faction are having for breakfast, you send the Silent Knives. If you want to know the tactical disposition of your enemy, you send the Silent Wolves. It is important to note that in 3.5 the Taarka'Khesh were Rangers and Scouts. They're at home in the wilderness, tracking movement and gauging the intention of armed formations. The Shaarat'Khesh are the spies and assassins, so they are the ones I mentioned. They are the ones the Goblinoids would turn to for covert action against the Five Nations, so they are effectively the Goblinoid player in this espionage game. Its certainly true that they would make good use of the ubiquity of Goblin commoners in the cities of the Five Nations to their advantage, but I don't think they have the cultural understanding to really pierce the intelligence networks of the Five Nations. They are trained for inter-Goblinoid conflict, which makes it difficult for them to grasp who in the Five Nations would have the information important to their current task, and what information is important to begin with. Essentially, they're starting off on a blank slate, trying to build an information network and get a sense for how the various intelligence organizations interact with each other. Just because they can steal an important document doesn't mean they know what to do with it. Yet. Once they can get their bearings they'll be a very important player, but as it stands they aren't a major consideration for anything outside Goblinoid matters in my Eberron. That's a good point, though I imagine that means that the Karrns have a rather small net to cast when they're looking to get information of others. I assume Kaius has his own specialized agents, but its likely difficult for him to know when and where to deploy them. I think the Emerald Claw is probably the most dangerous in the short-term, not counting Vol's goals, because they don't really have any need to insure the survival of their nation anymore. Even the Karrnathi patriots who join aren't bound by strict operating procedures that keep Karrnath from being linked to their subversive activities, so the Claw can be as bold and destructive as they want, since no one really has a target to aim at when it comes to dealing with the Claw. Actually, the Medani talent for counter-spying is why I think the Dark Lanterns are so good at it. For one, Breland has the King's Citadel. While the other nations had their own Citadel agents at the start of the war, Breland had the best facilities and resources for espionage already at their fingertips. More importantly, however, they had detailed information on [i]every other Citadel agent ever trained[/i] . They knew the identities of every agent that had defected to their home nation, they knew where every safehouse was and they knew exactly what training enemy agents had and how those agents operated. The intelligence groups built off those former agents were built on tactics the Brelish had already devised counters for, and it took the other nations a long time to really break away from the old Citadel traditions and really get their footing. This is combined with the Medani's own long career of counter-intelligence, and the close relationship between Trelib and Boranel, producing the best counter-spies on the continent. I think the Medani and Dark Lanterns both had something of a focused evolution together, by sharing (at some level) information and training techniques, that led to them being so capable at dealing with other information gathering organizations. Breland took an early lead with counter-intelligence, and then concentrated their efforts toward maintaining that lead. Working off this, keep in mind that Breland had records on every agent who left to serve another nation. If we think of this intelligence war as a game, then consider that Breland started off seeing much more of the board than anyone else. They knew where all the pieces were, they knew how things connected, and they knew (approximately) just how much the other players knew. They may have had their own Citadel agents, but the other nations were starting off at a significant disadvantage. A disadvantage that Breland would be keen to maintain. That's a good point, and I think that coupled with the inclination of the Brelish military to encourage individual initiative, I would say that the Brelish train there Dark Lanterns to be [i]very[/i] self-reliant. A Dark Lantern is thrust into a situation and told to solve it, with whatever tools are available. Considering that Breland is a very industrious nation, the Dark Lanterns are very likely well equipped, but considering the impressive tools their enemies have that the Brelish just can't match, I think there is a high focus on being able to improvise a solution to any situation you encounter, along with a maxim of survival. Because a dead Lantern is of no use to the Crown. That's a good point, the Royal Eyes are very likely the best cultured and educated, and using magic to compensate for fewer numbers is a hallmark of Aundairian tactical doctrine. Especially with its use in scrying, I imagine that the Royal Eyes try to be very 'hands off' in their work. You can't risk your Wizards in a front-line scuffle, and a well trained field agent is too valuable a tool to send into the sewers under Sharn chasing after some Dark Lantern. Usually. I don't think either of these nations has an intelligence organization that isn't outclassed in most aspects by a foreign power. Not much to speak of outside the Emerald Claw really. The Argentum seems more specialized in acquiring magical items to make up for Thrane's lack of arcane ability. That's an utterly delicious point. In my mind, Cyre was second only to Breland in intelligence work, largely due to their position as the administrative center of Galifar. While they don't have access to the Citadel archives that gave Breland such a huge leg up in espionage, they do have access to critical national secrets of every nation that passed through the administrations of Galifar. Noted arcane projects in Aundair, civil unrest in Karrnath, even major Citadel operations. Where Breland took an early lead by crippling everyone else's intelligence efforts, Cyre started off with tons of national secrets to exploit. As the war went on and their information became dated, Cyre still kept up by fielding extremely well equipped agents. Relying on a smaller number of agents, but that number being [b][/b]very well trained and equipped (with Cyre's huge reserve wealth fitting the bill). Still, I don't think Cyre used its intelligence arm to subvert other nations, but rather to simply gather as much information as possible. Trying to duplicate arcane projects in Aundair and learning Karrnathi battle-plans, getting as much out of their agents as possible without risking them unduly in the field, because much like Aundair's Wizards, Cyre's agents are difficult to replace and carry very expensive equipment. This leads into their current limbo, with Cyran intelligence having information that many nations would gladly kill for, and consequently having to dodge essentially every other intelligence organization on the continent. Its an even bigger problem when, as you said, we account for the fact that the Cyran intelligence agents have no home to have loyalty to, and no love at all for the other four nations. A group of extremely well trained and well equipped people with nothing left to lose and secrets that could reignite the Last War. Oh yeah, that's going to work out [b]swell[/b]. [/QUOTE]
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