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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8894257" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I think Torchbearer has more surface-level complexity than BW - as in, more sub-systems and rules elements have to be brought within contemplation of the players to get the game off the ground. But I think it probably has less depth over all.</p><p></p><p>Its tagline is "a game of desperate adventure", but I've found a way to toggle the situations I frame (without changing the underlying rules) which don't fully remove the desperation but make it probably a bit less gritty than it might default to. (But my players nevertheless make jokes about the difficulty of replacing their PCs' shoes - at the moment most are going barefoot.)</p><p></p><p>There is also scope to vary the degree of "player driven-ness" of the game. It's probably short of AW and BW in that respect, but my approach is similar to 4e D&D. The game has its own mechanisms - especially town events and allied things; also twists (one category of consequences for failure) - to create the space for the GM to introduce player-centred content/situation of the sort that is core to BW. It could be played less player-oriented and more GM-driven than the way my group does it.</p><p></p><p>Compared to AW, the structure of extended conflict resolution might seem a bit "artificial". Given the context of this thread, I'd say for D&D players used to stop-motion initiative it's not more artificial but pretty different in its structure (simultaneous blind declaration, 3 moves at a time). There is also scope for negotiation of compromise outcomes (similar to a BW Duel of Wits) which is a bit different from both AW (even allowing for "asking questions" as a key part of the AW toolkit) and D&D, though the way we play I (as GM) exercise a pretty strong degree of control here.</p><p></p><p>I find the flavour to be The Hobbit (including some of the more comedic elements) mixed with the Silmarillion (less profound tragedy, but some rather similar motifs). I don't have any hesitation in recommending it as worth a try.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8894257, member: 42582"] I think Torchbearer has more surface-level complexity than BW - as in, more sub-systems and rules elements have to be brought within contemplation of the players to get the game off the ground. But I think it probably has less depth over all. Its tagline is "a game of desperate adventure", but I've found a way to toggle the situations I frame (without changing the underlying rules) which don't fully remove the desperation but make it probably a bit less gritty than it might default to. (But my players nevertheless make jokes about the difficulty of replacing their PCs' shoes - at the moment most are going barefoot.) There is also scope to vary the degree of "player driven-ness" of the game. It's probably short of AW and BW in that respect, but my approach is similar to 4e D&D. The game has its own mechanisms - especially town events and allied things; also twists (one category of consequences for failure) - to create the space for the GM to introduce player-centred content/situation of the sort that is core to BW. It could be played less player-oriented and more GM-driven than the way my group does it. Compared to AW, the structure of extended conflict resolution might seem a bit "artificial". Given the context of this thread, I'd say for D&D players used to stop-motion initiative it's not more artificial but pretty different in its structure (simultaneous blind declaration, 3 moves at a time). There is also scope for negotiation of compromise outcomes (similar to a BW Duel of Wits) which is a bit different from both AW (even allowing for "asking questions" as a key part of the AW toolkit) and D&D, though the way we play I (as GM) exercise a pretty strong degree of control here. I find the flavour to be The Hobbit (including some of the more comedic elements) mixed with the Silmarillion (less profound tragedy, but some rather similar motifs). I don't have any hesitation in recommending it as worth a try. [/QUOTE]
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