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How Magical or Non-Magical Should the Monk Be?
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<blockquote data-quote="mlund" data-source="post: 6029984" data-attributes="member: 50304"><p>The problem is that all those implementations have been failures, IMO. Their contributions in combat have been either bad versions of what a Fighter can do or a way to monopolize unarmed Martial Arts so the Fighter is bad at it. Their other unique features were generally completely self-centered piles of immunity balanced only by the fact that they were down-right terrible at taking any proactive stance against enemies. Their social interactions were limited to being lie-detectors and their exploration options were basically being a really awful rogue who was exceptional at jumping and falling.</p><p></p><p>That's not a class. That's a horribly designed Martial Artist being saddled with (and monopolizing) the Aesthetic Contemplative moniker. There's no reason a Martial Artist needs to be a contemplative other than to artificially prop up a bad Monk class. There's no reason for a Contemplative character to be a Martial Artist other than to artificially prop up a bad Monk class.</p><p></p><p>By no means should the traditional Monk be a class if this requires monopolizing Martial Arts and Contemplative Aestheticism away from everyone else - destroying the idea of the brawler, street-fighter, wrestler, unarmed gladiator, etc. on the one hand and the contemplative priest, artisan, archer, naturalist hermit, etc. on the other.</p><p></p><p>That's the kind of niche-carving mistake that's marred class design in the past editions. It shouldn't be carried forward into DNDNext. The Shaolin Warrior-Monk should be something you can easily build, but it doesn't need to be its own class if it means that kind of bad niche-carving.</p><p></p><p>If it's 80% swapping "sword" with "fists" and 20% bag-o-tricks then it's either a customization of the fighter (Shaolin Style) or the Gish (Anime Style).</p><p></p><p>- Marty Lund</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mlund, post: 6029984, member: 50304"] The problem is that all those implementations have been failures, IMO. Their contributions in combat have been either bad versions of what a Fighter can do or a way to monopolize unarmed Martial Arts so the Fighter is bad at it. Their other unique features were generally completely self-centered piles of immunity balanced only by the fact that they were down-right terrible at taking any proactive stance against enemies. Their social interactions were limited to being lie-detectors and their exploration options were basically being a really awful rogue who was exceptional at jumping and falling. That's not a class. That's a horribly designed Martial Artist being saddled with (and monopolizing) the Aesthetic Contemplative moniker. There's no reason a Martial Artist needs to be a contemplative other than to artificially prop up a bad Monk class. There's no reason for a Contemplative character to be a Martial Artist other than to artificially prop up a bad Monk class. By no means should the traditional Monk be a class if this requires monopolizing Martial Arts and Contemplative Aestheticism away from everyone else - destroying the idea of the brawler, street-fighter, wrestler, unarmed gladiator, etc. on the one hand and the contemplative priest, artisan, archer, naturalist hermit, etc. on the other. That's the kind of niche-carving mistake that's marred class design in the past editions. It shouldn't be carried forward into DNDNext. The Shaolin Warrior-Monk should be something you can easily build, but it doesn't need to be its own class if it means that kind of bad niche-carving. If it's 80% swapping "sword" with "fists" and 20% bag-o-tricks then it's either a customization of the fighter (Shaolin Style) or the Gish (Anime Style). - Marty Lund [/QUOTE]
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