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How many age categories should dragons have?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7104858" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I'm fairly sure this or something quite like it was actually done.</p><p></p><p>But I also think you need to back up and look at someone else's complaints in this thread to understand why I think that is not necessarily a solution. In fact, I'd guess that the holes in 4e only really exist because 4e didn't last long enough as an economically viable product to make publishing dragon stat blocks to fill the gaps worthwhile. </p><p></p><p>Tequila Sunrise observed: </p><p></p><p>Leaving aside his desire to have more symmetry between dragons (because I also expect some will want less symmetry between dragons), one of the problems of using the different dragons to cover gaps is that it presumes you can get the party to the appropriate terrain type. </p><p></p><p>Another problem is much more so than the 2e and 3e age categories, you really are implementing 'reds rule... whites drool' when you do this. Compare with the 3e White Dragon in the SRD, that implements a good opponent for basically every level of standard play, and where a Great Wyrm White is on par with a Very Old Red. Indeed, I'd suggest that the 3e Red Dragon is the worse designed, because the top end Red's are pretty absurd and rarely have utility (CR 26, DC 40 to save versus the breath weapon, etc) to most DMs. One of my goals in doing this redesign is to make dragons more usable within the standard framework of play than they are in 2e or 3e. </p><p></p><p>One of the big complaints against 1e dragons is that they weren't very interesting as solo/boss monsters the way people wanted, which is an early example of what any 4e fan must be acutely aware of - designing solo/boss monsters that are exciting is not easy. Most of the attempts to fix that in the 1e era despite having some good ideas were based on poor math and the often poor state of analysis the pervaded DMing at the time, and in my opinion, second edition also went off down a bad path. Third edition carried on in that direction and compounded the problem. Fourth edition offered one idea of a solution. Fifth edition offers another. My concern however is retro-fixing the history of the game from 1e to 3e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7104858, member: 4937"] I'm fairly sure this or something quite like it was actually done. But I also think you need to back up and look at someone else's complaints in this thread to understand why I think that is not necessarily a solution. In fact, I'd guess that the holes in 4e only really exist because 4e didn't last long enough as an economically viable product to make publishing dragon stat blocks to fill the gaps worthwhile. Tequila Sunrise observed: Leaving aside his desire to have more symmetry between dragons (because I also expect some will want less symmetry between dragons), one of the problems of using the different dragons to cover gaps is that it presumes you can get the party to the appropriate terrain type. Another problem is much more so than the 2e and 3e age categories, you really are implementing 'reds rule... whites drool' when you do this. Compare with the 3e White Dragon in the SRD, that implements a good opponent for basically every level of standard play, and where a Great Wyrm White is on par with a Very Old Red. Indeed, I'd suggest that the 3e Red Dragon is the worse designed, because the top end Red's are pretty absurd and rarely have utility (CR 26, DC 40 to save versus the breath weapon, etc) to most DMs. One of my goals in doing this redesign is to make dragons more usable within the standard framework of play than they are in 2e or 3e. One of the big complaints against 1e dragons is that they weren't very interesting as solo/boss monsters the way people wanted, which is an early example of what any 4e fan must be acutely aware of - designing solo/boss monsters that are exciting is not easy. Most of the attempts to fix that in the 1e era despite having some good ideas were based on poor math and the often poor state of analysis the pervaded DMing at the time, and in my opinion, second edition also went off down a bad path. Third edition carried on in that direction and compounded the problem. Fourth edition offered one idea of a solution. Fifth edition offers another. My concern however is retro-fixing the history of the game from 1e to 3e. [/QUOTE]
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How many age categories should dragons have?
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