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How much prep do I need for a sandbox?
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<blockquote data-quote="Wik" data-source="post: 4706883" data-attributes="member: 40177"><p>Ars Ludi, particularly the West Marches pieces, are a great place to look.</p><p></p><p>One problem I have with using 4e for a Sandbox is it doesn't feel right. The main problem with it all is the Treasure Packets system - to really do a sandbox, these have to be rethought (or else you're just giving treasure based on who your PCs are, whereas one of the ideas of a sandbox is that "the world exists beyond the PCs").</p><p></p><p>To give an example, in 1e, you rolled random magic weapons, and some types of weapons (longswords) were more common than others (the Guisarme). Now, if you were, say, a specialist in the Guisarme that was great, but good luck finding a magical one, right? Because of this, in a 1e sandbox, players who decided to focus on more common weapons were rewarded with more frequent magical weapons.</p><p></p><p>Bringing this into 4e, if you have a character who is a specialist in the War Pick, and the group finds a magical war pick every three levels or so (and never finds a magical longsword), the players will pick up on the fact that they are getting catered item lists - that, regardless of where they go, they'll get the same (or very similar) treasure.</p><p></p><p>You can use 4e to sandbox, but for the reason above, I'd drop the treasure packets system. I think a good way to do it would be to factor in Weapon, Armour, and Neck-slot enhancement bonuses into regular PC progression. Mike Mearls mentioned this just before 4e released. This way, the magical items you gave out would only be the "weird" ones, not truly catered to any specific character build. You could even give out magical weapons/armour - just have magical items in this houseruled game of yours grant only the property bonus, the daily/encounter powers, and the bonus damage on a critical hit (a character with a non-magical weapon that got an enhancement bonus would only deal the extra d6s on a crit, not the d8s or d10s some weapons grant). </p><p></p><p>That'd be a good place to start, with me.</p><p></p><p>I'd also make sure you have a good idea where most of the ruins and adventure sites are located. Fleshing out the powers is a great place to start. But the real place to run a sandbox is in your encounter tables. Make good encounter groups, with each region built towards a suggested level. If PCs shoot above their level (or below), they'll encounter the listed monsters. </p><p></p><p>Ars Ludi suggests that each table have a possibility of a roll on a table for a nearby region (so if you're in the Black Wood, which is adjacent to Goblin Creek, there's a chance you'll find some goblins from Goblin Creek that are currently exploring the Black Wood). It also suggests you have a "roll twice" feature, and then try to figure out how those two encounters mix together (The Goblins could be fighting a Black Wood owlbear... or trying to capture it... or trying to train it... or worshipping it... whatever). </p><p></p><p>I'd also suggest your tables have environmental effects (Quicksand!), weather effects (rain!), and - most importantly - RPG elements (NPCs!).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wik, post: 4706883, member: 40177"] Ars Ludi, particularly the West Marches pieces, are a great place to look. One problem I have with using 4e for a Sandbox is it doesn't feel right. The main problem with it all is the Treasure Packets system - to really do a sandbox, these have to be rethought (or else you're just giving treasure based on who your PCs are, whereas one of the ideas of a sandbox is that "the world exists beyond the PCs"). To give an example, in 1e, you rolled random magic weapons, and some types of weapons (longswords) were more common than others (the Guisarme). Now, if you were, say, a specialist in the Guisarme that was great, but good luck finding a magical one, right? Because of this, in a 1e sandbox, players who decided to focus on more common weapons were rewarded with more frequent magical weapons. Bringing this into 4e, if you have a character who is a specialist in the War Pick, and the group finds a magical war pick every three levels or so (and never finds a magical longsword), the players will pick up on the fact that they are getting catered item lists - that, regardless of where they go, they'll get the same (or very similar) treasure. You can use 4e to sandbox, but for the reason above, I'd drop the treasure packets system. I think a good way to do it would be to factor in Weapon, Armour, and Neck-slot enhancement bonuses into regular PC progression. Mike Mearls mentioned this just before 4e released. This way, the magical items you gave out would only be the "weird" ones, not truly catered to any specific character build. You could even give out magical weapons/armour - just have magical items in this houseruled game of yours grant only the property bonus, the daily/encounter powers, and the bonus damage on a critical hit (a character with a non-magical weapon that got an enhancement bonus would only deal the extra d6s on a crit, not the d8s or d10s some weapons grant). That'd be a good place to start, with me. I'd also make sure you have a good idea where most of the ruins and adventure sites are located. Fleshing out the powers is a great place to start. But the real place to run a sandbox is in your encounter tables. Make good encounter groups, with each region built towards a suggested level. If PCs shoot above their level (or below), they'll encounter the listed monsters. Ars Ludi suggests that each table have a possibility of a roll on a table for a nearby region (so if you're in the Black Wood, which is adjacent to Goblin Creek, there's a chance you'll find some goblins from Goblin Creek that are currently exploring the Black Wood). It also suggests you have a "roll twice" feature, and then try to figure out how those two encounters mix together (The Goblins could be fighting a Black Wood owlbear... or trying to capture it... or trying to train it... or worshipping it... whatever). I'd also suggest your tables have environmental effects (Quicksand!), weather effects (rain!), and - most importantly - RPG elements (NPCs!). [/QUOTE]
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