Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How much should 5e aim at balance?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 5984190" data-attributes="member: 95493"><p>It seems to me the issue and conversation isn't talking about balance in any real form. It seems like we are discussing an issue of meaningful choice. I emphasize MEANINGFUL because it is just that.</p><p></p><p>The pro-balance, dare I say pro-4e?, side don't like the swinginess of 3e but more than that they don't like that certain choices were (almost always) sub-optimal and that certain other choices were (almost always) SUPER-optimal. They don't like wizards for being as good or better than fighters and wanted balance to limit the choice between the two classes. Again, it comes to an issue of choice.</p><p></p><p>The anti-balance, dare I say pro-3e?, side doesn't like the perception of balance as being the sole driving focus of the game. They feel that choices don't need to be balanced so long as they are fun. But this again boils down to not needing balance so long as all choices are optimal. The issue of balance to them doesn't come up BECAUSE all choices are optimal or optimal at points.</p><p></p><p>I have to admit I fall into the anti-balance side because I don't see balance as the need all and end all of game design. But I have to admit I see the point of the pro-balance people. Choices in 3e weren't all equal because you were (almost) never going to take profession (knitting) as it wasn't as valuable as stealth or perception. Worse yet certain choices were traps in value. Some people see the non-casters as traps in choices as they think (again, real or not) that any wizard can replicate or even surpass any other class.</p><p></p><p>Can we not both agree that a certain amount of balance is required; as it facilitates how everything is created, be that items, classes, races, traits or abilities. But that not everything needs to be balanced; that certain classes can shine at different times, that not all classes need to fill the same role or niche and that it is possible and even preferable for certain classes to surpass one another at varying levels?</p><p></p><p>Just my two cents. But as Neo famously said, "Choice, the problem is choice."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tovec, post: 5984190, member: 95493"] It seems to me the issue and conversation isn't talking about balance in any real form. It seems like we are discussing an issue of meaningful choice. I emphasize MEANINGFUL because it is just that. The pro-balance, dare I say pro-4e?, side don't like the swinginess of 3e but more than that they don't like that certain choices were (almost always) sub-optimal and that certain other choices were (almost always) SUPER-optimal. They don't like wizards for being as good or better than fighters and wanted balance to limit the choice between the two classes. Again, it comes to an issue of choice. The anti-balance, dare I say pro-3e?, side doesn't like the perception of balance as being the sole driving focus of the game. They feel that choices don't need to be balanced so long as they are fun. But this again boils down to not needing balance so long as all choices are optimal. The issue of balance to them doesn't come up BECAUSE all choices are optimal or optimal at points. I have to admit I fall into the anti-balance side because I don't see balance as the need all and end all of game design. But I have to admit I see the point of the pro-balance people. Choices in 3e weren't all equal because you were (almost) never going to take profession (knitting) as it wasn't as valuable as stealth or perception. Worse yet certain choices were traps in value. Some people see the non-casters as traps in choices as they think (again, real or not) that any wizard can replicate or even surpass any other class. Can we not both agree that a certain amount of balance is required; as it facilitates how everything is created, be that items, classes, races, traits or abilities. But that not everything needs to be balanced; that certain classes can shine at different times, that not all classes need to fill the same role or niche and that it is possible and even preferable for certain classes to surpass one another at varying levels? Just my two cents. But as Neo famously said, "Choice, the problem is choice." [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How much should 5e aim at balance?
Top