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How much should 5e aim at balance?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5984333" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>In this case you're focussing on half the conversation. The pro-4e posters are as far as I can tell all in favour of balance in pretty much the way you are. What is being dealt with with the pro-transparency is a side issue - that there are specific times under which you can decide that balance isn't important. And one of the necessary conditions for this (note: necessary but not sufficient) is that you must be transparent about it.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>My wizards play uber because they are in a fight for their lives against the monsters trying to kill them. That is one form of competition. It is also roleplaying. The goals of my character are not necessarily aligned with my goals as a player - and not dying is pretty much at the top of my character's list for most characters.</p><p> </p><p>It's the jerk test. If I'm using the uber strategies out of character I'm being a jerk to those of classes who can't use them. If I'm not using them in character, I'm recklessly risking the lives of my companions and the fate of the world and I'm therefore being a jerk.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>But it's a team game. As DM I arrange combats so that the party is fighting X orcs. The PCs work out how.</p><p> </p><p>It's also a game with a character called a <em>fighter</em>. Fighting is his thing. If it's arranged so the fighter fights four orcs and the wizard fights one, as the wizard I'm not unhappy - I'll get my time to shine. On the other hand the fighter's time to shine is in combat (the druid is also a skill monkey and a caster) and if the fighter isn't shining in combat he's a benchwarmer.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>And why can't they do this by just giving a level handicap? Or a stats handicap? Comes to the same effect but doesn't leave traps for the new players to fall into.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5984333, member: 87792"] In this case you're focussing on half the conversation. The pro-4e posters are as far as I can tell all in favour of balance in pretty much the way you are. What is being dealt with with the pro-transparency is a side issue - that there are specific times under which you can decide that balance isn't important. And one of the necessary conditions for this (note: necessary but not sufficient) is that you must be transparent about it. My wizards play uber because they are in a fight for their lives against the monsters trying to kill them. That is one form of competition. It is also roleplaying. The goals of my character are not necessarily aligned with my goals as a player - and not dying is pretty much at the top of my character's list for most characters. It's the jerk test. If I'm using the uber strategies out of character I'm being a jerk to those of classes who can't use them. If I'm not using them in character, I'm recklessly risking the lives of my companions and the fate of the world and I'm therefore being a jerk. But it's a team game. As DM I arrange combats so that the party is fighting X orcs. The PCs work out how. It's also a game with a character called a [I]fighter[/I]. Fighting is his thing. If it's arranged so the fighter fights four orcs and the wizard fights one, as the wizard I'm not unhappy - I'll get my time to shine. On the other hand the fighter's time to shine is in combat (the druid is also a skill monkey and a caster) and if the fighter isn't shining in combat he's a benchwarmer. And why can't they do this by just giving a level handicap? Or a stats handicap? Comes to the same effect but doesn't leave traps for the new players to fall into. [/QUOTE]
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How much should 5e aim at balance?
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