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How much should 5e aim at balance?
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 5984938" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>Yes, the PCs are not competing. The players are <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> Of course this an exaggeration of mine, I'm just saying that there are players (how many, I'll let you judge by yourself but IMHO quite a lot) who approach the game with a competitive spirit, that they want to prove themselves to be better than others - although not necessarily the other sitting at the same table, it can be a more psychological need of proving yourself "smarter" than the gamers base because you've figured out how to min-max to the best.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's a very good point.</p><p></p><p>It brings me back again to the simple question: "Should the Fighter <em>really</em> be the best at fighting?"</p><p></p><p>Because when talking about it most gamers would say "yes! obviously", but then the truth IMHO is that they want to play a Cleric or a Wizard or a Rogue and so on, and do not want to be a bit less good than the Fighter at fighting. They want to be equal.</p><p></p><p>Then the game moves to another phase, let's say exploration, and there is another character which traditionally gets more spotlight: the Rogue. That used to be normal, just like the Fighter is supposed to be the best at fighting, the Rogue was the best at exploring. But now that you made everybody equal in combat, it feels unfair that someone is the best in another phase so you have to make everyone equal in exploration too.</p><p></p><p>What's next then... healing? Should the Cleric be the best at healing? Of course everybody says, and yet the game has unquestionably shifted more and more towards giving everyone the ability to heal (himself at least) without really the need for a cleric. Gamers still want the Cleric to be somehow better at healing, and the Fighter better at fighting, and the Rogue better at exploring, but only <em>slightly</em>, because many of them fundamentally hate (a) to depend on someone else and (b) to feel even minimally inferior.</p><p></p><p>I think I was too that kind of player a long time ago, and in fact I was much much more concerned about balance 10 years ago, but somehow I feel I have moved on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 5984938, member: 1465"] Yes, the PCs are not competing. The players are ;) Of course this an exaggeration of mine, I'm just saying that there are players (how many, I'll let you judge by yourself but IMHO quite a lot) who approach the game with a competitive spirit, that they want to prove themselves to be better than others - although not necessarily the other sitting at the same table, it can be a more psychological need of proving yourself "smarter" than the gamers base because you've figured out how to min-max to the best. That's a very good point. It brings me back again to the simple question: "Should the Fighter [I]really[/I] be the best at fighting?" Because when talking about it most gamers would say "yes! obviously", but then the truth IMHO is that they want to play a Cleric or a Wizard or a Rogue and so on, and do not want to be a bit less good than the Fighter at fighting. They want to be equal. Then the game moves to another phase, let's say exploration, and there is another character which traditionally gets more spotlight: the Rogue. That used to be normal, just like the Fighter is supposed to be the best at fighting, the Rogue was the best at exploring. But now that you made everybody equal in combat, it feels unfair that someone is the best in another phase so you have to make everyone equal in exploration too. What's next then... healing? Should the Cleric be the best at healing? Of course everybody says, and yet the game has unquestionably shifted more and more towards giving everyone the ability to heal (himself at least) without really the need for a cleric. Gamers still want the Cleric to be somehow better at healing, and the Fighter better at fighting, and the Rogue better at exploring, but only [I]slightly[/I], because many of them fundamentally hate (a) to depend on someone else and (b) to feel even minimally inferior. I think I was too that kind of player a long time ago, and in fact I was much much more concerned about balance 10 years ago, but somehow I feel I have moved on. [/QUOTE]
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