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General Tabletop Discussion
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How much should 5e aim at balance?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6015967" data-attributes="member: 17106"><p>Well yes. I wouldn't call animal companions overpowered though, and polymorph abilities really have to be consciously abused to be a problem.</p><p></p><p>Sure.</p><p></p><p>Then again, it's not bad above level 7 either.</p><p></p><p>It isn't. The basic structure of ability scores/races/classes/skills/feats is fine. The notion of base attack, base saves, and hit points being involuntary increased with level is problematic, but no more so that in any other version of D&D. Of course there are some specific rules that are broken. That doesn't mean the game itself is.</p><p></p><p>In general, most of those rules are fine, most groups can play most characters at most levels doing most things in most styles without any real problems. As any d20 player knows, even the best of us fail 5% of the time, and you're talking about the worst 5% of spells and magical abilities. Judging 3e solely by a few poorly written and abusable spells is not appropriate. That would be like looking AL vs NL use of the DH and the advantage it grants certain teams in interleague play and concluding that baseball is broken. Similarly, a few overpowered wild shape forms does not mean the entire system is such.</p><p></p><p>Again; it's the basic structure, the AEDU system itself, not the individual powers or classes (mainly because it's used for PCs in a highly standardized way, but not in that same way for monsters). The standard modifier also leads to nonsensical issues; whereas in the rest of D&D a high level wizard somewhat dubiously gets better at attacking people and gains more hit points, a 4e character gets better at everything, making high level characters too much improved over lower level ones. The tripling of hit points for 1st level PCs and the existence of minions also really breaks the hit point system; player characters are far too good in that respect.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 6015967, member: 17106"] Well yes. I wouldn't call animal companions overpowered though, and polymorph abilities really have to be consciously abused to be a problem. Sure. Then again, it's not bad above level 7 either. It isn't. The basic structure of ability scores/races/classes/skills/feats is fine. The notion of base attack, base saves, and hit points being involuntary increased with level is problematic, but no more so that in any other version of D&D. Of course there are some specific rules that are broken. That doesn't mean the game itself is. In general, most of those rules are fine, most groups can play most characters at most levels doing most things in most styles without any real problems. As any d20 player knows, even the best of us fail 5% of the time, and you're talking about the worst 5% of spells and magical abilities. Judging 3e solely by a few poorly written and abusable spells is not appropriate. That would be like looking AL vs NL use of the DH and the advantage it grants certain teams in interleague play and concluding that baseball is broken. Similarly, a few overpowered wild shape forms does not mean the entire system is such. Again; it's the basic structure, the AEDU system itself, not the individual powers or classes (mainly because it's used for PCs in a highly standardized way, but not in that same way for monsters). The standard modifier also leads to nonsensical issues; whereas in the rest of D&D a high level wizard somewhat dubiously gets better at attacking people and gains more hit points, a 4e character gets better at everything, making high level characters too much improved over lower level ones. The tripling of hit points for 1st level PCs and the existence of minions also really breaks the hit point system; player characters are far too good in that respect. [/QUOTE]
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