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How Online Collaboration is Opening a World of Southeast Asian RPGs
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<blockquote data-quote="Dungeonosophy" data-source="post: 8201330" data-attributes="member: 6688049"><p>After sleeping on it, I feel that y'all are, in many ways, right.</p><p></p><p>I was inconsiderate to focus on the Indosphere era of SEA when the three SEA RPGs which are being Kickstarted are about other genres. Basically, I was off topic and culturally insensitive. I apologize.</p><p></p><p>I admit I was stretching it by pointing to <em>maharlika</em>'s etymological root in Sanskrit. It'd be like me saying: "Hey, medieval European fantasy (and Modern Euro-American fantasy and sci-fi) is rooted in ancient Rome since many of the words used are borrowed from Latin!" Now, that would make an interesting research topic, but it's only slightly relevant to the topic at hand. You're right, beej.</p><p></p><p>I have never heard anyone speak of the names <em>Suvarṇabhūmi</em> (Golden Land) and <em>Suvarnadvipa </em>(Golden Islands) as derogatory or harmful names. Yet beej, I hear and acknowledge your interpretation of how those names, and the ancient Greco-Roman name, <em>Aurea Regio,</em> fueled the greed of the colonial Western powers. And I acknowledge that the Western nation-states sure as heck did terribly mistreat Southeast Asian Humanity, and did take their gold.</p><p></p><p>I understand now that calling out Boise, Idaho as an illegitimate home base for defending SEA culture was unfair on my part. Who am I to speak like that, when I live in rural upstate N.Y., and am of mostly Caucasian identity? It was unfair to try to trump you like that, Dire Bare. I grew up in rural West Virginia, and, like you say, even there, there are Asians and other ethno-national diversities. The first human being I touched outside of my mother was the Korean-American obstetrician, Dr. Koh.</p><p></p><p>For context about my post:</p><p>I usually don't post much at ENWorld nowadays. I quickly check the daily news, and that's about it. I got too much going on. But when I see an especially cool article or product review, I'll try to post at least a quick: "That looks cool, thanks." That's all I intended to do when I saw the SEA article. I did go to the Kickstarter page, but only skimmed through, during my workbreak.</p><p></p><p>Yet as I started to type my little post, I vaguely remember I wanted to also talk about SEA analogues in D&D and other FRPGs. But I then I realized I didn't have time to get into that. But I also love poetic names for lands, so I just quickly typed out: "This is awesome. Glad to see RPGs from the Golden Land of yore." ("Of yore" because hardly anyone calls SEA the "Golden Land" anymore.) The "of yore" came from me slipping into fantasy D&D/Middle-earth speak. I've been singing the Song of Earendil recently, and that phrase "of yore" is in the lyrics.</p><p></p><p>I understand better now that my use of "Golden Land" was perplexing, peculiar, and off-topic. Yet I still wouldn't say "orientalist." If I'd been like: "This is awesome. Glad to see RPGs from the dreaming East Indies." or something rude like that, that would be orientalism. The combo of using an obscure mythological name (Golden Land) which hardly anyone knows, plus my use of "of yore", was understandably confusing and perplexing. Especially given that the 3 RPGs aren't about ancient SEA mythology.</p><p></p><p>I get it now. It'd be like seeing a Kickstarter bundling together new RPGs from several Scandinavian countries, and me tossing out:</p><p>"So cool to see some new RPGs from Scandza of yore." (Scandza is an ancient name for Scandinavia.) Some people would be like: "WTH?"</p><p></p><p>And then, if someone says something to me about it, like "Hey, what does Scandza mean? And why are you using an ancient name, when none of these games are even about the ancient Norse genre. They're modern and sci-fi games. And why did you say "of yore"? And we Finnish people don't identify with the word 'Scandza' or 'Scandinavia', since those words came from the Swedish colonizers!"</p><p></p><p>Then I start arguing and lose my head. When really the original post was just a quickly typed, peculiar blip. I like using archaic, poetic names.</p><p></p><p>But I understand now how that is pretty off-topic, and I better empathize with how the situation is more intense when speaking of decolonized lands and cultures. I get it.</p><p></p><p>Then in my later argument with Dire Bare, I defensively tried to put more meaning into it than I'd originally intended. Once an argument starts, it kinda takes on a life of its own. Sorry 'bout that.</p><p></p><p>A couple of relevant qualifications:</p><p></p><p>1) I did an art exhibit for which I researched the official poetic names for literally all 194 nation-states in the world. Including all the SEA countries. I spent a year reading Wikipedia pages on this topic, and scouring official histories at each nation's embassy websites and govt. tourism sites, and doing word searches for poetic/traditional monikers in each country's equivalent of the ".gov" domain.</p><p></p><p>Like momatoes suggested: I did use "Majapahit" for Indonesia. And "Land of the Free" for Thailand, "The Golden Land" for Myanmar, "The Pearl of the East" for the Philippines, "Van Lang" for Vietnam, "Lane Xang" for Laos, "Truly Asia" for Malaysia, "The Abode of Peace" for Brunei, "The Amazon of the Seas" for Timor Leste, and "The City in a Garden" for Singapore. I didn't invent any of these; they all come from official national publications.</p><p>Here's a link to the <a href="https://get.google.com/albumarchive/105097808852877412730/album/AF1QipM8yiF4VoO3VhOUDghJsBWnM_67vJGRbQEt3i5E?authKey=CPD94smZ95nCxwE" target="_blank">images</a> from the art show.</p><p></p><p>So I'm kind of one of the world's leading experts on this little field of knowledge. Not that I'm always right. But in this field of study, I've encountered several times that I'm more familiar with the traditional poetic names of a country than are present-day representatives of that nationality.</p><p></p><p>2) I maintain a research page which tries to document every Real World national-cultural analogue which is present in any of the official TSR/WotC D&D Worlds. <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/culture-books" target="_blank">Culture Books - Free Culture & Tabletop Roleplay</a></p><p>IIRC, I first wrote the page as 5E (or was it 4E?) was coming out, in hopes that WotC would actually publish Culture Books along these lines. That's why I creatively coined a suggested title for each book too. I ditched the stale, passe word "Oriental Adventures", and instead differentiated East Asia into smaller cultural regions. For the SEA D&D Culture Book, I suggested: <em>Suvarnabhumi Adventures</em> or <em>Golden Land Adventures.</em></p><p></p><p>***</p><p>Lastly, to share a resource which is in line which how I came to the Golden Land as an acceptable nickname for SEA as whole.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://resourcecentre.asean.org/Book_Detail/?page=8&ID=2140" target="_blank"><em>Understanding Southeast Asia</em></a>, authored by the ASEAN Secretariat (2015):</p><p></p><p><em>"Perennially defined by rice, stability and commerce, Southeast Asia has evolved a common trading ethic and morality influenced by China and India long before a short European colonial interlude. <strong>Historically known as a Golden Land</strong>, the region exudes a resilience founded in millennium-long traditions that are today expressed through local adaptations of world religions."</em></p><p>***</p><p>As amends for my mistakes and inconsiderations, I went and backed the Our Shores project. I feel good about it. Thanks to Dire Bare, momatoes, and beej for keeping me honest, on-topic, and culturally attuned. If there's any further amends or tangles which ask for addressing, I'd be grateful to know and understand.</p><p></p><p>In gratitude,</p><p>-Travis H.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dungeonosophy, post: 8201330, member: 6688049"] After sleeping on it, I feel that y'all are, in many ways, right. I was inconsiderate to focus on the Indosphere era of SEA when the three SEA RPGs which are being Kickstarted are about other genres. Basically, I was off topic and culturally insensitive. I apologize. I admit I was stretching it by pointing to [I]maharlika[/I]'s etymological root in Sanskrit. It'd be like me saying: "Hey, medieval European fantasy (and Modern Euro-American fantasy and sci-fi) is rooted in ancient Rome since many of the words used are borrowed from Latin!" Now, that would make an interesting research topic, but it's only slightly relevant to the topic at hand. You're right, beej. I have never heard anyone speak of the names [I]Suvarṇabhūmi[/I] (Golden Land) and [I]Suvarnadvipa [/I](Golden Islands) as derogatory or harmful names. Yet beej, I hear and acknowledge your interpretation of how those names, and the ancient Greco-Roman name, [I]Aurea Regio,[/I] fueled the greed of the colonial Western powers. And I acknowledge that the Western nation-states sure as heck did terribly mistreat Southeast Asian Humanity, and did take their gold. I understand now that calling out Boise, Idaho as an illegitimate home base for defending SEA culture was unfair on my part. Who am I to speak like that, when I live in rural upstate N.Y., and am of mostly Caucasian identity? It was unfair to try to trump you like that, Dire Bare. I grew up in rural West Virginia, and, like you say, even there, there are Asians and other ethno-national diversities. The first human being I touched outside of my mother was the Korean-American obstetrician, Dr. Koh. For context about my post: I usually don't post much at ENWorld nowadays. I quickly check the daily news, and that's about it. I got too much going on. But when I see an especially cool article or product review, I'll try to post at least a quick: "That looks cool, thanks." That's all I intended to do when I saw the SEA article. I did go to the Kickstarter page, but only skimmed through, during my workbreak. Yet as I started to type my little post, I vaguely remember I wanted to also talk about SEA analogues in D&D and other FRPGs. But I then I realized I didn't have time to get into that. But I also love poetic names for lands, so I just quickly typed out: "This is awesome. Glad to see RPGs from the Golden Land of yore." ("Of yore" because hardly anyone calls SEA the "Golden Land" anymore.) The "of yore" came from me slipping into fantasy D&D/Middle-earth speak. I've been singing the Song of Earendil recently, and that phrase "of yore" is in the lyrics. I understand better now that my use of "Golden Land" was perplexing, peculiar, and off-topic. Yet I still wouldn't say "orientalist." If I'd been like: "This is awesome. Glad to see RPGs from the dreaming East Indies." or something rude like that, that would be orientalism. The combo of using an obscure mythological name (Golden Land) which hardly anyone knows, plus my use of "of yore", was understandably confusing and perplexing. Especially given that the 3 RPGs aren't about ancient SEA mythology. I get it now. It'd be like seeing a Kickstarter bundling together new RPGs from several Scandinavian countries, and me tossing out: "So cool to see some new RPGs from Scandza of yore." (Scandza is an ancient name for Scandinavia.) Some people would be like: "WTH?" And then, if someone says something to me about it, like "Hey, what does Scandza mean? And why are you using an ancient name, when none of these games are even about the ancient Norse genre. They're modern and sci-fi games. And why did you say "of yore"? And we Finnish people don't identify with the word 'Scandza' or 'Scandinavia', since those words came from the Swedish colonizers!" Then I start arguing and lose my head. When really the original post was just a quickly typed, peculiar blip. I like using archaic, poetic names. But I understand now how that is pretty off-topic, and I better empathize with how the situation is more intense when speaking of decolonized lands and cultures. I get it. Then in my later argument with Dire Bare, I defensively tried to put more meaning into it than I'd originally intended. Once an argument starts, it kinda takes on a life of its own. Sorry 'bout that. A couple of relevant qualifications: 1) I did an art exhibit for which I researched the official poetic names for literally all 194 nation-states in the world. Including all the SEA countries. I spent a year reading Wikipedia pages on this topic, and scouring official histories at each nation's embassy websites and govt. tourism sites, and doing word searches for poetic/traditional monikers in each country's equivalent of the ".gov" domain. Like momatoes suggested: I did use "Majapahit" for Indonesia. And "Land of the Free" for Thailand, "The Golden Land" for Myanmar, "The Pearl of the East" for the Philippines, "Van Lang" for Vietnam, "Lane Xang" for Laos, "Truly Asia" for Malaysia, "The Abode of Peace" for Brunei, "The Amazon of the Seas" for Timor Leste, and "The City in a Garden" for Singapore. I didn't invent any of these; they all come from official national publications. Here's a link to the [URL='https://get.google.com/albumarchive/105097808852877412730/album/AF1QipM8yiF4VoO3VhOUDghJsBWnM_67vJGRbQEt3i5E?authKey=CPD94smZ95nCxwE']images[/URL] from the art show. So I'm kind of one of the world's leading experts on this little field of knowledge. Not that I'm always right. But in this field of study, I've encountered several times that I'm more familiar with the traditional poetic names of a country than are present-day representatives of that nationality. 2) I maintain a research page which tries to document every Real World national-cultural analogue which is present in any of the official TSR/WotC D&D Worlds. [URL='https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/culture-books']Culture Books - Free Culture & Tabletop Roleplay[/URL] IIRC, I first wrote the page as 5E (or was it 4E?) was coming out, in hopes that WotC would actually publish Culture Books along these lines. That's why I creatively coined a suggested title for each book too. I ditched the stale, passe word "Oriental Adventures", and instead differentiated East Asia into smaller cultural regions. For the SEA D&D Culture Book, I suggested: [I]Suvarnabhumi Adventures[/I] or [I]Golden Land Adventures.[/I] *** Lastly, to share a resource which is in line which how I came to the Golden Land as an acceptable nickname for SEA as whole. [URL='http://resourcecentre.asean.org/Book_Detail/?page=8&ID=2140'][I]Understanding Southeast Asia[/I][/URL], authored by the ASEAN Secretariat (2015): [I]"Perennially defined by rice, stability and commerce, Southeast Asia has evolved a common trading ethic and morality influenced by China and India long before a short European colonial interlude. [B]Historically known as a Golden Land[/B], the region exudes a resilience founded in millennium-long traditions that are today expressed through local adaptations of world religions."[/I] *** As amends for my mistakes and inconsiderations, I went and backed the Our Shores project. I feel good about it. Thanks to Dire Bare, momatoes, and beej for keeping me honest, on-topic, and culturally attuned. If there's any further amends or tangles which ask for addressing, I'd be grateful to know and understand. In gratitude, -Travis H. [/QUOTE]
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