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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
How should 4E deal with the power of fire?
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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 4010294" data-attributes="member: 2020"><p>Fire is a problematic thing in D&D. It has a tendency to perpetuate itself.</p><p> Consider a Fireball. It can start fires. A Frostball cannot do that. Nor a Sonicball, Forceball, Acidball (not likely, at least), or Other-type-ball.</p><p></p><p> With a simple cantrip, like the cantrip Firefinger from the old 1st Edition Unearthed Arcana, my character could theoretically burn up thousands of square miles of land, level cities, kill tens of thousands ... and rack up millions of experience points and gain many kingdoms of treasure (not very likely! ... but theoretically possible.)</p><p> </p><p> - In 1st Edition, failing a saving throw against a fire effect was crippling. Every item you had, now had to save. If one failed, every item you had, had to save again. This chain-reaction stripped my characters of arsenals of items and magic, along with many characters played by others I knew. </p><p> And of course, someone on fire could not cast spells. Period. And they could not fight very well (if the DM allowed them to fight at all.) Superheated armor cooked fighters and clerics. Robes got the mages. I mean, it was better to run around naked ... at least then, when you failed your fire save you weren't all but Autokilled.</p><p></p><p> - In 2nd Edition, DMs tended to mitigate the above, but still fire was a menace. (I mean, who has never experimented with greek fire? It's just such a lovely weapon ... especially when you fall on your backpack, shatter a lot of greek fire vials, and then someone Fireballs you ...)</p><p></p><p> - In 3rd Edition, the designers compensated for the problem by ruling that clothing and magical items were basically invincible. That is, you get hit with enough heat to melt soft metals instantly (that's a lot of heat) but your fancy nobleman's clothing is unsinged.</p><p> Freed of the threat of mass destruction of their items, characters started decorating themselves like Christmas Trees with countless minor magical items of every description and type (and thus, we finally got to the polymorphed dog (or whatever it was) with all those magical items on it ... but the Polymorph debate is for another thread ... the very idea expressed in that picture would have been unthinkable in 1E, due to the threat of fire to carried items.)</p><p></p><p> So now we have 4th Edition coming in. How to deal with fire, and fire effects?</p><p> We have ordinary fire (torches, lanterns, oil, greek fire, catapults, forest fires, volcanoes, even hot water and steam.)</p><p> We have magical fire (dragon breath, monster powers, creatures made of fire or otherwise hot, psionic powers.)</p><p> We have spell fire (arcane, divine, other.)</p><p></p><p> But all have something in common: Fire is a self-perpetuating thing. Fire creates heat, and heat enables fire. Once the fire gets big enough, ordinary medieval methods are futile in putting it out. Let the fire get sufficiently big, and even magical means are futile.</p><p></p><p> How should fire - this powerful and ancient weapon - be handled in 4th Edition?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 4010294, member: 2020"] Fire is a problematic thing in D&D. It has a tendency to perpetuate itself. Consider a Fireball. It can start fires. A Frostball cannot do that. Nor a Sonicball, Forceball, Acidball (not likely, at least), or Other-type-ball. With a simple cantrip, like the cantrip Firefinger from the old 1st Edition Unearthed Arcana, my character could theoretically burn up thousands of square miles of land, level cities, kill tens of thousands ... and rack up millions of experience points and gain many kingdoms of treasure (not very likely! ... but theoretically possible.) - In 1st Edition, failing a saving throw against a fire effect was crippling. Every item you had, now had to save. If one failed, every item you had, had to save again. This chain-reaction stripped my characters of arsenals of items and magic, along with many characters played by others I knew. And of course, someone on fire could not cast spells. Period. And they could not fight very well (if the DM allowed them to fight at all.) Superheated armor cooked fighters and clerics. Robes got the mages. I mean, it was better to run around naked ... at least then, when you failed your fire save you weren't all but Autokilled. - In 2nd Edition, DMs tended to mitigate the above, but still fire was a menace. (I mean, who has never experimented with greek fire? It's just such a lovely weapon ... especially when you fall on your backpack, shatter a lot of greek fire vials, and then someone Fireballs you ...) - In 3rd Edition, the designers compensated for the problem by ruling that clothing and magical items were basically invincible. That is, you get hit with enough heat to melt soft metals instantly (that's a lot of heat) but your fancy nobleman's clothing is unsinged. Freed of the threat of mass destruction of their items, characters started decorating themselves like Christmas Trees with countless minor magical items of every description and type (and thus, we finally got to the polymorphed dog (or whatever it was) with all those magical items on it ... but the Polymorph debate is for another thread ... the very idea expressed in that picture would have been unthinkable in 1E, due to the threat of fire to carried items.) So now we have 4th Edition coming in. How to deal with fire, and fire effects? We have ordinary fire (torches, lanterns, oil, greek fire, catapults, forest fires, volcanoes, even hot water and steam.) We have magical fire (dragon breath, monster powers, creatures made of fire or otherwise hot, psionic powers.) We have spell fire (arcane, divine, other.) But all have something in common: Fire is a self-perpetuating thing. Fire creates heat, and heat enables fire. Once the fire gets big enough, ordinary medieval methods are futile in putting it out. Let the fire get sufficiently big, and even magical means are futile. How should fire - this powerful and ancient weapon - be handled in 4th Edition? [/QUOTE]
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