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D&D Older Editions
How should 4E deal with the power of fire?
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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 4010516" data-attributes="member: 2020"><p>I believe you. Pyros? LOL. Indeed, when new players discover what fire can do, they often go nuts: 'I put 20 (or even 50) flasks of oil in my backpack!' was heard all too often in my 1E days.</p><p> But then, consider what happened when you threw said oil flask. It hit, set the monster on fire, completely disabled the monster (usually, you can't fight when you are a living torch ...) and did the standard 2d6 damage, plus 1d6 the next round.</p><p> Of course, said oil was an area effect attack, sorta like a poor man's Fireball. A whole lot of monsters got hit, and got incapacitated.</p><p> Then your fighter shot the monsters dead while they burned (if they tried to put out the fire, you simply threw more oil at them.)</p><p></p><p> If you can do that, why not carry those 20 oil flasks? Better than a Magic Missile any day of the week (yeah, Magic Missile always hits, but oil is an area effect, and you always throw multiple flasks ...)</p><p></p><p> In other words, Fire is a Chain Reaction Weapon. In the above case, 2d6 comes from the fire, and 1d6 in the following round. But all carried items must save, and if one fails all must save again, and an additional 1d6 of fire damage occurs (2d6 maximum, but this can go on indefinitely until everything carried burns up, or the monster dies.) And a burning monster, sets everyone and everything around it on fire, and now that is burning, and the fire spreads, and soon you have a fiery holocaust (if in a forest) or nobody can breathe because all the oxygen burned away (in a dungeon.)</p><p> Fireball was such a devastating spell in 1E because it had this effect, and the chaining kept going long after the initial 5d6 damage (or 10d6, or whatever.) Saves were allowed, but inevitably someone or something wouldn't make the saving throw, and the fun began.</p><p></p><p> Fire could be classified as an Infinity Weapon, in the case of a forest fire or town fire or city fire, if the characters manage to cause such an event.</p><p> What is an Infinity Weapon? It is a spell or weapon that can produce an infinite effect. The old version of Reverse Gravity was an Infinity Spell, because there was no limit on how far upward you fell. Teleport is an Infinity Spell, because there is no limit on distance (on the planet) you can travel (and thus, Teleport Fireball, Teleport Monster, and Teleport Undead are Infinity Spells also.) Time Stop was an Infinity Spell, because in it's original version you could do *anything* you wanted to anyone or anything within the area of effect, while the Time Stop lasted (like, cutting someone into 100 pieces with a sword.)</p><p></p><p> A horse kicked over a lantern, and it burned half of the City of Chicago down.</p><p> A character with the 1st level spell Burning Hands might just burn down the city of Greyhawk, Waterdeep, or Palanthus (at least, theoretically.)</p><p></p><p> Smart characters are going to use fire to it's full effectiveness, taking precautions to prevent it from backlashing against them.</p><p> The point is not to prevent the smart tactical use of fire.</p><p> The point is: How do we prevent the Pyromaniacs from Burning Down the Campaign Setting and Everything In It, at Low Level? (I mean ... I saw a party of 3rd level characters take out a 20 headed hydra with burning oil ... and that's burning down the campaign at low level, in my book.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 4010516, member: 2020"] I believe you. Pyros? LOL. Indeed, when new players discover what fire can do, they often go nuts: 'I put 20 (or even 50) flasks of oil in my backpack!' was heard all too often in my 1E days. But then, consider what happened when you threw said oil flask. It hit, set the monster on fire, completely disabled the monster (usually, you can't fight when you are a living torch ...) and did the standard 2d6 damage, plus 1d6 the next round. Of course, said oil was an area effect attack, sorta like a poor man's Fireball. A whole lot of monsters got hit, and got incapacitated. Then your fighter shot the monsters dead while they burned (if they tried to put out the fire, you simply threw more oil at them.) If you can do that, why not carry those 20 oil flasks? Better than a Magic Missile any day of the week (yeah, Magic Missile always hits, but oil is an area effect, and you always throw multiple flasks ...) In other words, Fire is a Chain Reaction Weapon. In the above case, 2d6 comes from the fire, and 1d6 in the following round. But all carried items must save, and if one fails all must save again, and an additional 1d6 of fire damage occurs (2d6 maximum, but this can go on indefinitely until everything carried burns up, or the monster dies.) And a burning monster, sets everyone and everything around it on fire, and now that is burning, and the fire spreads, and soon you have a fiery holocaust (if in a forest) or nobody can breathe because all the oxygen burned away (in a dungeon.) Fireball was such a devastating spell in 1E because it had this effect, and the chaining kept going long after the initial 5d6 damage (or 10d6, or whatever.) Saves were allowed, but inevitably someone or something wouldn't make the saving throw, and the fun began. Fire could be classified as an Infinity Weapon, in the case of a forest fire or town fire or city fire, if the characters manage to cause such an event. What is an Infinity Weapon? It is a spell or weapon that can produce an infinite effect. The old version of Reverse Gravity was an Infinity Spell, because there was no limit on how far upward you fell. Teleport is an Infinity Spell, because there is no limit on distance (on the planet) you can travel (and thus, Teleport Fireball, Teleport Monster, and Teleport Undead are Infinity Spells also.) Time Stop was an Infinity Spell, because in it's original version you could do *anything* you wanted to anyone or anything within the area of effect, while the Time Stop lasted (like, cutting someone into 100 pieces with a sword.) A horse kicked over a lantern, and it burned half of the City of Chicago down. A character with the 1st level spell Burning Hands might just burn down the city of Greyhawk, Waterdeep, or Palanthus (at least, theoretically.) Smart characters are going to use fire to it's full effectiveness, taking precautions to prevent it from backlashing against them. The point is not to prevent the smart tactical use of fire. The point is: How do we prevent the Pyromaniacs from Burning Down the Campaign Setting and Everything In It, at Low Level? (I mean ... I saw a party of 3rd level characters take out a 20 headed hydra with burning oil ... and that's burning down the campaign at low level, in my book.) [/QUOTE]
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How should 4E deal with the power of fire?
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