Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
How to get rid of the adversarial tone in the game
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 3377597" data-attributes="member: 463"><p>Default 3e strongly encourages an adversarial stance I'd say. It encourages player empowerment and 'takes the GM out of the equation' via an intendedly all-encompassing ruleset and the CR/EL system.</p><p></p><p>I'd say the key was de-escalation, but this is difficult running an Adventure Path. </p><p></p><p>The natural tendency is escalation - they play hard, so you play harder, so they play harder... and so on. You need to avoid this. Stop playing to their strengths. Dial down the threat level; let them slaughter the monsters with their munchkin powergamey tactics. Let them have their easy victories - you don't have to do this in a nasty or mean-spirited way; think of it as a Hercules/Xena type TV show where the protagonists are simply far better than the opposition. Concentrate on other areas of the game that interest you - actual character interaction, say. Xena's relationship with her cohort Gabrielle was often more interesting than the warlord-of-the-week. Threats can either be easily beatable, or some demon god whose melee power is 20 CRs above their level, who has to be outthought rather than outfought (let them know he's 20 CRs over their level before they attack him, though!)*. Star Trek took this approach a lot.</p><p></p><p>Now, this isn't standard 3e. Standard 3e is based on a miniatures skirmish wargame where a group of PCs face a group of monsters of somewhat less power (about 1/2, actually, on the typical CRs) and try to defeat them with minimal resource expenditure. You can still have regular fights, but don't worry that the PCs only use 5% of their resources or whatever. The challenge may be to prevent any of the NPCs escaping, or to capture one alive, rather than survival.</p><p></p><p>*Actually, this may not be a good idea. True adversarial powergamers get really upset by hostile NPCs too powerful to kill (like the demon goddess Glory in Buffy season 5), and will keep dashing their heads against a brick wall trying to take him down. An entity who just lives in people's dreams/isn't really there, like the First Evil from Buffy season 7, may be better. It can't directly hurt them, they can't directly hurt it either.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="S'mon, post: 3377597, member: 463"] Default 3e strongly encourages an adversarial stance I'd say. It encourages player empowerment and 'takes the GM out of the equation' via an intendedly all-encompassing ruleset and the CR/EL system. I'd say the key was de-escalation, but this is difficult running an Adventure Path. The natural tendency is escalation - they play hard, so you play harder, so they play harder... and so on. You need to avoid this. Stop playing to their strengths. Dial down the threat level; let them slaughter the monsters with their munchkin powergamey tactics. Let them have their easy victories - you don't have to do this in a nasty or mean-spirited way; think of it as a Hercules/Xena type TV show where the protagonists are simply far better than the opposition. Concentrate on other areas of the game that interest you - actual character interaction, say. Xena's relationship with her cohort Gabrielle was often more interesting than the warlord-of-the-week. Threats can either be easily beatable, or some demon god whose melee power is 20 CRs above their level, who has to be outthought rather than outfought (let them know he's 20 CRs over their level before they attack him, though!)*. Star Trek took this approach a lot. Now, this isn't standard 3e. Standard 3e is based on a miniatures skirmish wargame where a group of PCs face a group of monsters of somewhat less power (about 1/2, actually, on the typical CRs) and try to defeat them with minimal resource expenditure. You can still have regular fights, but don't worry that the PCs only use 5% of their resources or whatever. The challenge may be to prevent any of the NPCs escaping, or to capture one alive, rather than survival. *Actually, this may not be a good idea. True adversarial powergamers get really upset by hostile NPCs too powerful to kill (like the demon goddess Glory in Buffy season 5), and will keep dashing their heads against a brick wall trying to take him down. An entity who just lives in people's dreams/isn't really there, like the First Evil from Buffy season 7, may be better. It can't directly hurt them, they can't directly hurt it either. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
How to get rid of the adversarial tone in the game
Top