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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
How to replace SR with equivalent save bonus?
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<blockquote data-quote="dvvega" data-source="post: 3138586" data-attributes="member: 524"><p>The other thing you need to take into account is that SR can save a creature from a spell even when the caster may have tanked their Save DCs.</p><p></p><p>I'm using your CR10/SR21 creature and a 10th level caster here.</p><p></p><p>In the example of the SR 21. A 10th level caster has 50% chance of penetrating with ANY spell assuming no special feats.</p><p></p><p>This same creature would have around at least a +12 on its saving throw.</p><p></p><p>The 10th level caster can cast 5th level spells so would have a minimum of 15 in the primary attribute and thus Save DCs would be 17.</p><p></p><p>So against the caster it has 50% of not being affected and if it is it has an 80% chance of avoiding the effects. That 80% goes down with the save DCs obviously. This works out to a 90% survival rate against the spell (if my maths is correct) overall.</p><p></p><p>Now we remove its spell resistance it has a flat 80% chance of survival. Now it isn't as easy as saying +2 is fine since you must take into account that a natural 1 is always a failure. So a +4 would be more appropriate (never use odd numbers IMHO). So with a +4 the creature in question can only fail on a 1, that's a 5% failure rate.</p><p></p><p>However as previously pointed out, the spell resitance ability allows you to ignore "no save" spells, and a lot of spells have effects if you save and spell resistance ignores those.</p><p></p><p>The only way I can currently think of to leave to it close mathematically is to subtract 2 from their saving throws but give them two saving throws. If they make the first one they can apply evasion/mettle/etc and ignore everything. If they don't make the first one then they get the normal saving throw.</p><p></p><p>In addition they can save against "no save" spells if they originally had an SR clause.</p><p></p><p>Although this looks just like replacing one roll with another, a Wizard can now focus solely on Saving Throw DC improvement and get a double benefit from it. Previously he would have had to take both SR improvement and DC improvement feats to be able to get past the creature's defences.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dvvega, post: 3138586, member: 524"] The other thing you need to take into account is that SR can save a creature from a spell even when the caster may have tanked their Save DCs. I'm using your CR10/SR21 creature and a 10th level caster here. In the example of the SR 21. A 10th level caster has 50% chance of penetrating with ANY spell assuming no special feats. This same creature would have around at least a +12 on its saving throw. The 10th level caster can cast 5th level spells so would have a minimum of 15 in the primary attribute and thus Save DCs would be 17. So against the caster it has 50% of not being affected and if it is it has an 80% chance of avoiding the effects. That 80% goes down with the save DCs obviously. This works out to a 90% survival rate against the spell (if my maths is correct) overall. Now we remove its spell resistance it has a flat 80% chance of survival. Now it isn't as easy as saying +2 is fine since you must take into account that a natural 1 is always a failure. So a +4 would be more appropriate (never use odd numbers IMHO). So with a +4 the creature in question can only fail on a 1, that's a 5% failure rate. However as previously pointed out, the spell resitance ability allows you to ignore "no save" spells, and a lot of spells have effects if you save and spell resistance ignores those. The only way I can currently think of to leave to it close mathematically is to subtract 2 from their saving throws but give them two saving throws. If they make the first one they can apply evasion/mettle/etc and ignore everything. If they don't make the first one then they get the normal saving throw. In addition they can save against "no save" spells if they originally had an SR clause. Although this looks just like replacing one roll with another, a Wizard can now focus solely on Saving Throw DC improvement and get a double benefit from it. Previously he would have had to take both SR improvement and DC improvement feats to be able to get past the creature's defences. [/QUOTE]
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How to replace SR with equivalent save bonus?
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