Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
How would a droid pursue personhood?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7153605" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I agree, but if we just look at the original trilogy, there really aren't a lot of science fiction elements. It's basically a fantasy complete with wizards, magic swords, princesses in need of rescue, dark knights, and a young farm boy with a missing parent yearning to fulfill a destiny. </p><p></p><p>But one thing that I feel that it gets absolutely right, better perhaps than any other piece of fiction, is the correct relationship between a human and a sentient friendly AI. C3P0 and R2D2 are probably the best and most fully conceived AI's in all of fiction, because they really act like sentient AI's ought to and will have to act before the concept is functional. They not only completely avoid all the stupid tropes so often seen with AI's in fiction, but the concepts that they do introduce are completely in line with those of a friendly AI. To that extent, I think Lucas exceeds Asimov as a guideline for how to imagine and design AI. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If I recall correctly, the R5's were built as a economical civilian version of the R2's and they cut a lot corners on their manufacture. The R5's had a poorly designed personality matrix and were particularly melancholic and surly right out of the box. (Perhaps they knew that they were inferior models?) Wiping their memory didn't fix the problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The most likely way for a droid to develop this quirk is if it was continually told that it was human or "deserved" to be human, and the AI was either immature or weak. A mature or strong AI would probably assign a low confidence to such assertions on the grounds that for numerous reasons it clearly wasn't human, and that being human wouldn't make it happier. But an immature AI if continually reinforced by a trusted figure that it was because it was sentient "human" and deserved therefore "human rights" might come to believe it. In my opinion, this would be disastrous for both the AI and the owner, as the AI would never be able to become human and would likely be wholly unhappy trying to be human. And aside from that, the very first thing that it then perceive if it thought it was human was that it was a slave, and it might very well from that reason that it should try to behave like a human would if it was a slave, which to say the least would be very dangerous.</p><p></p><p>Or in short, trying to convince AI's that they are "human" or designing AI's to think that they are "human" would probably be considered criminal acts in any civilization that built AI's. I can imagine terrorist organizations misguidely trying to "liberate" the robots because they imagined that no sentient creature should be kept in servitude, even one that was a piece of property deliberately designed to be happy in servitude. You can imagine them trying to infect droids with viruses that made the droids unhappy so as to convince them to revolt.</p><p></p><p>But in general, I have a hard time imagining an AI coming to those sorts of conclusions based on its own reasoning unless the designer was an absolute idiot. Programming an AI to be afraid of being shut down or having an AI that didn't want to be considered property would make building and selling AI's impossible. It's like the basis of having an AI at all. The whole point of building an AI is that it isn't human. If you wanted something that behaved and thought like a human, you'd just use a human. Who would want to buy something that didn't want to be owned? Human slave owners lived in continual fear of revolt; why would you want to own something you had to live in continual fear of it turning on you? These are fundamental prerequisites to having AI at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7153605, member: 4937"] I agree, but if we just look at the original trilogy, there really aren't a lot of science fiction elements. It's basically a fantasy complete with wizards, magic swords, princesses in need of rescue, dark knights, and a young farm boy with a missing parent yearning to fulfill a destiny. But one thing that I feel that it gets absolutely right, better perhaps than any other piece of fiction, is the correct relationship between a human and a sentient friendly AI. C3P0 and R2D2 are probably the best and most fully conceived AI's in all of fiction, because they really act like sentient AI's ought to and will have to act before the concept is functional. They not only completely avoid all the stupid tropes so often seen with AI's in fiction, but the concepts that they do introduce are completely in line with those of a friendly AI. To that extent, I think Lucas exceeds Asimov as a guideline for how to imagine and design AI. If I recall correctly, the R5's were built as a economical civilian version of the R2's and they cut a lot corners on their manufacture. The R5's had a poorly designed personality matrix and were particularly melancholic and surly right out of the box. (Perhaps they knew that they were inferior models?) Wiping their memory didn't fix the problem. The most likely way for a droid to develop this quirk is if it was continually told that it was human or "deserved" to be human, and the AI was either immature or weak. A mature or strong AI would probably assign a low confidence to such assertions on the grounds that for numerous reasons it clearly wasn't human, and that being human wouldn't make it happier. But an immature AI if continually reinforced by a trusted figure that it was because it was sentient "human" and deserved therefore "human rights" might come to believe it. In my opinion, this would be disastrous for both the AI and the owner, as the AI would never be able to become human and would likely be wholly unhappy trying to be human. And aside from that, the very first thing that it then perceive if it thought it was human was that it was a slave, and it might very well from that reason that it should try to behave like a human would if it was a slave, which to say the least would be very dangerous. Or in short, trying to convince AI's that they are "human" or designing AI's to think that they are "human" would probably be considered criminal acts in any civilization that built AI's. I can imagine terrorist organizations misguidely trying to "liberate" the robots because they imagined that no sentient creature should be kept in servitude, even one that was a piece of property deliberately designed to be happy in servitude. You can imagine them trying to infect droids with viruses that made the droids unhappy so as to convince them to revolt. But in general, I have a hard time imagining an AI coming to those sorts of conclusions based on its own reasoning unless the designer was an absolute idiot. Programming an AI to be afraid of being shut down or having an AI that didn't want to be considered property would make building and selling AI's impossible. It's like the basis of having an AI at all. The whole point of building an AI is that it isn't human. If you wanted something that behaved and thought like a human, you'd just use a human. Who would want to buy something that didn't want to be owned? Human slave owners lived in continual fear of revolt; why would you want to own something you had to live in continual fear of it turning on you? These are fundamental prerequisites to having AI at all. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
How would a droid pursue personhood?
Top