Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How would YOU nerf the wizard? +
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Steampunkette" data-source="post: 9335268" data-attributes="member: 6796468"><p>Yup. Because every fight starts with the Wizard attacking from stealth somewhere in the next county over, far away from the rest of the party. And enemies would -never- ambush the wizard while they're off on their lonesome.</p><p></p><p>No, sincerely, I recognize what you're saying, Horwath, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander.</p><p></p><p>And if you hit 2 targets you've done 14 more damage than the fighter would in 2 rounds. And if you hit 3 targets you've done 21 more damage than a fighter would in 3 rounds. You don't have to hit 12 for it to be -very- worthwhile.</p><p></p><p>And if you're aiming at a single target you'd probably wind up using a single target spell for better efficiency, of course. Also: It isn't always your highest level spell. And even if it -is-, how many targets do you need to hit before it drastically shortens the duration of combat?</p><p></p><p>Again, 2 or 3 is enough to make it "Worthwhile". Lord knows I'll use it on my players if I can hit two of 'em. Though, in fairness, my spell slots are far more disposable than a player Wizard's.</p><p></p><p>I tend to build out the encounter day in a way that specifically MAKES fireball useful once a player chooses it. By including a pile of weaker foes for the Wizard/Sorcerer/Whomstever to bomb off the map with glee.</p><p></p><p>Guess that's a difference in DM Style, in the end. I try to make sure there are situations which allow players to shine, specifically.</p><p></p><p>Ehhh... Again, I think that's a difference in how fights are constructed. If you think the only target that "Really Counts" is the boss, that's a choice. Not a -bad- choice. But not the one I choose.</p><p></p><p>The Wizard will do more damage with 1-2 damaging area of effect spells if there's a bunch of people on the battlefield than the fighter will deal in 10 rounds of combat. If the Wizard hits 4 people with a fireball, by your own math, the wizard will have done as much damage as the fighter would if the fighter spent 6 rounds running around the battlefield swinging twice with their greatsword every turn and -hitting- every time. On Average.</p><p></p><p>A 5th level Wizard can do that twice, and still have as many second and first level spell slots as they did at 4th level "Left Over" for the rest of the day. If they hit 4 targets, both times, they've done as much damage as the fighter running around for 12 entire rounds swinging on enemies.</p><p></p><p>And since a 5th level Wizard is probably still mostly fighting low-level enemies that damage is going to wipe out a squad of goblins or bandits or guards or whatever, and make the Wizard look and feel really cool as they dispense with a bunch of the Boss's minions before engaging the boss. And let's be real, the Boss was probably in the area, too.</p><p></p><p>You don't have to focus only on damage dealing spells, either. Mixing in some crowd control or buff/debuff makes it even more impressive and effective.</p><p></p><p>Silvery Barbs is definitely a messy 'fix'... But like most of the others it doesn't fix anything. Just applies an opportunity and resource cost to bend the rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steampunkette, post: 9335268, member: 6796468"] Yup. Because every fight starts with the Wizard attacking from stealth somewhere in the next county over, far away from the rest of the party. And enemies would -never- ambush the wizard while they're off on their lonesome. No, sincerely, I recognize what you're saying, Horwath, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And if you hit 2 targets you've done 14 more damage than the fighter would in 2 rounds. And if you hit 3 targets you've done 21 more damage than a fighter would in 3 rounds. You don't have to hit 12 for it to be -very- worthwhile. And if you're aiming at a single target you'd probably wind up using a single target spell for better efficiency, of course. Also: It isn't always your highest level spell. And even if it -is-, how many targets do you need to hit before it drastically shortens the duration of combat? Again, 2 or 3 is enough to make it "Worthwhile". Lord knows I'll use it on my players if I can hit two of 'em. Though, in fairness, my spell slots are far more disposable than a player Wizard's. I tend to build out the encounter day in a way that specifically MAKES fireball useful once a player chooses it. By including a pile of weaker foes for the Wizard/Sorcerer/Whomstever to bomb off the map with glee. Guess that's a difference in DM Style, in the end. I try to make sure there are situations which allow players to shine, specifically. Ehhh... Again, I think that's a difference in how fights are constructed. If you think the only target that "Really Counts" is the boss, that's a choice. Not a -bad- choice. But not the one I choose. The Wizard will do more damage with 1-2 damaging area of effect spells if there's a bunch of people on the battlefield than the fighter will deal in 10 rounds of combat. If the Wizard hits 4 people with a fireball, by your own math, the wizard will have done as much damage as the fighter would if the fighter spent 6 rounds running around the battlefield swinging twice with their greatsword every turn and -hitting- every time. On Average. A 5th level Wizard can do that twice, and still have as many second and first level spell slots as they did at 4th level "Left Over" for the rest of the day. If they hit 4 targets, both times, they've done as much damage as the fighter running around for 12 entire rounds swinging on enemies. And since a 5th level Wizard is probably still mostly fighting low-level enemies that damage is going to wipe out a squad of goblins or bandits or guards or whatever, and make the Wizard look and feel really cool as they dispense with a bunch of the Boss's minions before engaging the boss. And let's be real, the Boss was probably in the area, too. You don't have to focus only on damage dealing spells, either. Mixing in some crowd control or buff/debuff makes it even more impressive and effective. Silvery Barbs is definitely a messy 'fix'... But like most of the others it doesn't fix anything. Just applies an opportunity and resource cost to bend the rules. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
How would YOU nerf the wizard? +
Top