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How would you rate ZEITGEIST and WotBS?
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<blockquote data-quote="SirCharles" data-source="post: 5945464" data-attributes="member: 6673046"><p>I have run all the way through WotBS as a player and am currently DMing Zeitgeist (right in the middle/end of <em>Dying Skyseer</em>). That is my background before I give my opinions. I played WotBS in 3.5 and Zeitgeist in Pathfinder so I cannot comment on 4th edition mechanics or anything. </p><p></p><p>When compared to Paizo, WotBS and Zeitgeist are just as good, if not better, in slightly different ways. Both are full 1-20 level games ("complete campaigns"...something Paizo has still never done). As such, I found Burning Sky to be very epic in scope and had a blast playing through it. While some bits did feel like "filler" parts, I didn't mind that. Even other adventures I've played/read through from Paizo and WoTC have similar bits in their adventures. </p><p></p><p>Zeitgeist is both epic AND unique, setting a new standard for long-running, full adventures. Characters and NPCs are really interesting and my players are "dying" to see what happens at the end of the <em>Dying Skyseer</em>. My players have really taken to the world and sunk their teeth into the various areas of the city. I've expanded and added certain areas where appropriate but have not had to add too much. The adventures are a perfect length and are not too wordy at all. My group plays for about 5 hours every week and it took us about 4-5 sessions to get through <em>Island</em> and it will probably end up being like 8-9 for <em>Dying Skyseer</em>, mostly because a) it's a bit longer and b) my players insist on interrogating EVERYONE they come across. </p><p></p><p>While I have not played WotBS in some years, I do not remember it feeling "railroady." Zeitgeist, especially <em>Dying Skyseer</em>, has been anything but "railroady." But, from my personal gaming philosophy, I do not mind, and in fact prefer, for games to provide some concrete direction. "Railroady" to me is never too much of a problem. Indeed, I find the other style of gaming...perhaps a more improvised, off-the-cuff, "do whatever you want" to be far less compelling and fulfilling. For instance, I've never played a "homebrew" game with friends that I found nearly as compelling as more structured adventures I've seen from EN and Paizo. If something feels too "railroady," DMs can always lighten up stuff, gloss over other parts, cut and paste, etc...I mean, one must ask: what does a "non-railroady" adventure look like? Someone might say the <em>Kingmaker </em>campaign from Paizo is less-railroady, but it is a game specifically structured around the theme of kingdom building and exploration. Hence, there is no possible way to make that "railroady." In sum, I would dismiss any claims that EN publishes adventures that are too "railroady." A published adventure, in essence, has to provide a track, directions, and key stops; if that's not what you want, why buy a module at all? Unless, as I've mentioned, you are taking certain pieces out and inserting them in your own game. </p><p></p><p>One little bit that I might improve on is some of the character portraits in Zeitgeist, though I will admit that the <em>Always On Time</em> portraits are a definite improvement. Some portraits, like Morgan Cippiano's or Julian LeBrix's, are too dark that they barely provide any details of the character's features at all. Again, the 4th Zeitgeist adventure improves on this many times over and it's a small nitpick, though something my players and me have noticed. </p><p></p><p>Maybe another small but certainly not necessary recommendation is to give a pronunciation guide for certain people or places that are somewhat strange. (I'm still not sure if I'm say "Vendricce" correctly).</p><p></p><p>Any other details you can provide about Lanjyr, certain cities, etc is greatly appreciated. My players and I love the depth of the setting so far and I've fleshed it out a bit more in my own way. But I'm happy and excited to know more about the history, societies, and cultures of Lanjyr.</p><p></p><p>That's about all I have right now. If I think of anything else, I'll post it for you guys.</p><p></p><p>Looking forward to <em>Cauldron-Born</em>!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SirCharles, post: 5945464, member: 6673046"] I have run all the way through WotBS as a player and am currently DMing Zeitgeist (right in the middle/end of [I]Dying Skyseer[/I]). That is my background before I give my opinions. I played WotBS in 3.5 and Zeitgeist in Pathfinder so I cannot comment on 4th edition mechanics or anything. When compared to Paizo, WotBS and Zeitgeist are just as good, if not better, in slightly different ways. Both are full 1-20 level games ("complete campaigns"...something Paizo has still never done). As such, I found Burning Sky to be very epic in scope and had a blast playing through it. While some bits did feel like "filler" parts, I didn't mind that. Even other adventures I've played/read through from Paizo and WoTC have similar bits in their adventures. Zeitgeist is both epic AND unique, setting a new standard for long-running, full adventures. Characters and NPCs are really interesting and my players are "dying" to see what happens at the end of the [I]Dying Skyseer[/I]. My players have really taken to the world and sunk their teeth into the various areas of the city. I've expanded and added certain areas where appropriate but have not had to add too much. The adventures are a perfect length and are not too wordy at all. My group plays for about 5 hours every week and it took us about 4-5 sessions to get through [I]Island[/I] and it will probably end up being like 8-9 for [I]Dying Skyseer[/I], mostly because a) it's a bit longer and b) my players insist on interrogating EVERYONE they come across. While I have not played WotBS in some years, I do not remember it feeling "railroady." Zeitgeist, especially [I]Dying Skyseer[/I], has been anything but "railroady." But, from my personal gaming philosophy, I do not mind, and in fact prefer, for games to provide some concrete direction. "Railroady" to me is never too much of a problem. Indeed, I find the other style of gaming...perhaps a more improvised, off-the-cuff, "do whatever you want" to be far less compelling and fulfilling. For instance, I've never played a "homebrew" game with friends that I found nearly as compelling as more structured adventures I've seen from EN and Paizo. If something feels too "railroady," DMs can always lighten up stuff, gloss over other parts, cut and paste, etc...I mean, one must ask: what does a "non-railroady" adventure look like? Someone might say the [I]Kingmaker [/I]campaign from Paizo is less-railroady, but it is a game specifically structured around the theme of kingdom building and exploration. Hence, there is no possible way to make that "railroady." In sum, I would dismiss any claims that EN publishes adventures that are too "railroady." A published adventure, in essence, has to provide a track, directions, and key stops; if that's not what you want, why buy a module at all? Unless, as I've mentioned, you are taking certain pieces out and inserting them in your own game. One little bit that I might improve on is some of the character portraits in Zeitgeist, though I will admit that the [I]Always On Time[/I] portraits are a definite improvement. Some portraits, like Morgan Cippiano's or Julian LeBrix's, are too dark that they barely provide any details of the character's features at all. Again, the 4th Zeitgeist adventure improves on this many times over and it's a small nitpick, though something my players and me have noticed. Maybe another small but certainly not necessary recommendation is to give a pronunciation guide for certain people or places that are somewhat strange. (I'm still not sure if I'm say "Vendricce" correctly). Any other details you can provide about Lanjyr, certain cities, etc is greatly appreciated. My players and I love the depth of the setting so far and I've fleshed it out a bit more in my own way. But I'm happy and excited to know more about the history, societies, and cultures of Lanjyr. That's about all I have right now. If I think of anything else, I'll post it for you guys. Looking forward to [I]Cauldron-Born[/I]! [/QUOTE]
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