Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
I Am For The Darkmaster, Actually
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8233846" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>Similar for RM's Maneuvering in Armor... IIRC, light armor, 7 ranks will cover all the available armor's maximum penalty of -35. So, for wizards, if you want to wear armor, only the exceptional spell failure channce matters after level 7. For the fighter, level 1, for the thief, Level 4 (2 ranks per level)...</p><p></p><p>In looking at the late 1970's an early (1983 or before) RPGs i've run (tho' not all run before 1883)...</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D&D - OE {1973}: no specific level abilities other than spells and turning. Attribute driven</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">AD&D 1E {1979}: Infrequent level abilities. Still mostly attribute driven. (Note that this predates Non-Weapon proficiencies)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">D&D Moldvay/Cook {1981/1982}: even less frequent level abilities, </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Traveller (CT1e/2E) {1977/1981}: skill driven combat, with attribute as modifier and attributes as damage pool. Non-combat varies by GM. The Snapshot boardgame is a fully compatible add in which adds action-point economy to personal combat.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Car Wars {pocket 1981}: TN by action, fixed 2 dice, skill as modifier. Doesn't quite hit real RPG status until 1985, with the release of Deluxe Car Wars.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">RuneQuest 1e/2e {1978}: skill driven, but some skills rated in maximum potency, while others are percentile based.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rolemaster (2e, I think. AL/ClL, ChL/CaL, SL (3 colors of pages), C&T1). All skills ranked, attrbute mods to all skills, all attribues have both skill and non-skill uses. Classes determine costs for skills, and per level bonuses to skills.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spacemaster 1E (Boxed Set: FL, TL, ConvL, big-ass map). Identical to RM mechanically</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">MERP (I think it quals): Fewer attributes, skill acquisition different method but same general ranges as RM. Fewer tables, broader tables. RM Lite.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">WFRP1E (just hits the cutoff, IIRC): Skills bolean, Attribute driven. Lack of skill may be a ×½, a ×0, or may be a +0; possession either negates the penalty multiplier or adds +10 or +20.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Starships and Spacemen {1E 1978}: Levels increase attributes, class grants singular bonus and what earns XP, attriibute driven</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tunnels and Trolls {1E 1975, 5e 1979}: Levels increase attributes. Class controls magic use and value of armor, attribute driven non-combat, weapon dominated with attribute modified combat. Race <em>multiplies attribute rolls</em></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monsters! Monsters! {1978 edition}: Race/Species also grants special abilities at level 1, and no classes, otherwise identical to T&T. Essentially, an additional T&T class (Monster) as a separate RPG.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Space Opera: Skill driven, some skills boolean, most ranked. Race modifies attributes, attributes have multiple effects, including modifying skill points, classes modify what can be bought in prior service cheaply. Attack rolls get a +15% just for being a PC...</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Palladium Fantasy Roleplay: two different skill mechanics, all skills ranked. Combat skills provide specific benefits at specific levels, not all have benefits every level, and modify d20 rolls. Non-combat are all base percent at level taken, and additional amount per level thereafter. Class determines class skills and allowed elective skills, and some one-off bonuses.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">FASA Star Trek the Role Playing Game {1983}: mostly skill driven, with some saves on attributes. "routine" uses are 1d10, easy 1d100-50, average 1d100, very hard 1d100+50, all vs a skill that competent members of the department will have 30-60, and many in other departments will have 5-15. Only one in this era I've seen using an Action Point Economy in combat in the core. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Heritage Star Trek {1978?}: attribute driven, combat system only. Really, just a minis wargame at character scale.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Enterprise: Japanese Star Trek RPG, IIRC, 1982. Not exported due to copyright and trademark issues. Attribute Driven. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Star Frontiers {1982}:</li> </ul><p></p><p>Of these, only one uses a mix of boolean and non-boolean skills: Space Opera. Clustering them into groupings by approach to skills and attributes:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">WFRP: Skills boolean. Attribute driven, modified by presence/absence of skill.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">S&S, T&T/M!M!, Enterprise, Heritage ST: are explicitly attribute driven.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">OD&D, BX D&D: Attribute rolls used for anything not a class ability in many people use of these. Class abilities mostly combat focused, except for thieves.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">AD&D: as with other D&D, but adds some boolean abilities to non-caster classes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Palladium FRP, Palladium Mechanoids, RQ 1e/2e: some skills percentile, some have levels that provide non-success-chance effects, some table driven.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Traveller, RM/SM/MERP: all explicitly skill driven, with attribute effects on skills </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">FASA-STRPG: All skills percentile. Attributes do different things than skills.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Star Frontiers: each skill has multiple discrete subskills derived from the core skill. some subskills are boolean, earned at level 1; others are ranked.</li> </ul><p>While not one I've played, Dallas {1978} is also attribute driven.</p><p></p><p>The inclusion of boolean skills really wasn't something done much back in the day. There were plenty of arguments over whether class-based or skill based was superior superior. Given some of the realities of some of the very broad skills in use, in a few games, like Star Frontiers, essentially it's a game with a dozen very narrow classes, and six levels per class. </p><p></p><p>late OD&D's & AD&D's introduction of level-gained abilities are unusual - until the 2000's, that mode was mostly D&D-line, and often absent from D&D derived heatbreakers, or amped up to 11 by every level gains of new abilities.</p><p></p><p>In a way, I'm kind of glad AtDM didn't give in to feat-itus...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 8233846, member: 6779310"] Similar for RM's Maneuvering in Armor... IIRC, light armor, 7 ranks will cover all the available armor's maximum penalty of -35. So, for wizards, if you want to wear armor, only the exceptional spell failure channce matters after level 7. For the fighter, level 1, for the thief, Level 4 (2 ranks per level)... In looking at the late 1970's an early (1983 or before) RPGs i've run (tho' not all run before 1883)... [LIST] [*]D&D - OE {1973}: no specific level abilities other than spells and turning. Attribute driven [*]AD&D 1E {1979}: Infrequent level abilities. Still mostly attribute driven. (Note that this predates Non-Weapon proficiencies) [*]D&D Moldvay/Cook {1981/1982}: even less frequent level abilities, [*]Traveller (CT1e/2E) {1977/1981}: skill driven combat, with attribute as modifier and attributes as damage pool. Non-combat varies by GM. The Snapshot boardgame is a fully compatible add in which adds action-point economy to personal combat. [*]Car Wars {pocket 1981}: TN by action, fixed 2 dice, skill as modifier. Doesn't quite hit real RPG status until 1985, with the release of Deluxe Car Wars. [*]RuneQuest 1e/2e {1978}: skill driven, but some skills rated in maximum potency, while others are percentile based. [*]Rolemaster (2e, I think. AL/ClL, ChL/CaL, SL (3 colors of pages), C&T1). All skills ranked, attrbute mods to all skills, all attribues have both skill and non-skill uses. Classes determine costs for skills, and per level bonuses to skills. [*]Spacemaster 1E (Boxed Set: FL, TL, ConvL, big-ass map). Identical to RM mechanically [*]MERP (I think it quals): Fewer attributes, skill acquisition different method but same general ranges as RM. Fewer tables, broader tables. RM Lite. [*]WFRP1E (just hits the cutoff, IIRC): Skills bolean, Attribute driven. Lack of skill may be a ×½, a ×0, or may be a +0; possession either negates the penalty multiplier or adds +10 or +20. [*]Starships and Spacemen {1E 1978}: Levels increase attributes, class grants singular bonus and what earns XP, attriibute driven [*]Tunnels and Trolls {1E 1975, 5e 1979}: Levels increase attributes. Class controls magic use and value of armor, attribute driven non-combat, weapon dominated with attribute modified combat. Race [I]multiplies attribute rolls[/I] [*]Monsters! Monsters! {1978 edition}: Race/Species also grants special abilities at level 1, and no classes, otherwise identical to T&T. Essentially, an additional T&T class (Monster) as a separate RPG. [*]Space Opera: Skill driven, some skills boolean, most ranked. Race modifies attributes, attributes have multiple effects, including modifying skill points, classes modify what can be bought in prior service cheaply. Attack rolls get a +15% just for being a PC... [*]Palladium Fantasy Roleplay: two different skill mechanics, all skills ranked. Combat skills provide specific benefits at specific levels, not all have benefits every level, and modify d20 rolls. Non-combat are all base percent at level taken, and additional amount per level thereafter. Class determines class skills and allowed elective skills, and some one-off bonuses. [*]FASA Star Trek the Role Playing Game {1983}: mostly skill driven, with some saves on attributes. "routine" uses are 1d10, easy 1d100-50, average 1d100, very hard 1d100+50, all vs a skill that competent members of the department will have 30-60, and many in other departments will have 5-15. Only one in this era I've seen using an Action Point Economy in combat in the core. [*]Heritage Star Trek {1978?}: attribute driven, combat system only. Really, just a minis wargame at character scale. [*]Enterprise: Japanese Star Trek RPG, IIRC, 1982. Not exported due to copyright and trademark issues. Attribute Driven. [*]Star Frontiers {1982}: [/LIST] Of these, only one uses a mix of boolean and non-boolean skills: Space Opera. Clustering them into groupings by approach to skills and attributes: [LIST] [*]WFRP: Skills boolean. Attribute driven, modified by presence/absence of skill. [*]S&S, T&T/M!M!, Enterprise, Heritage ST: are explicitly attribute driven. [*]OD&D, BX D&D: Attribute rolls used for anything not a class ability in many people use of these. Class abilities mostly combat focused, except for thieves. [*]AD&D: as with other D&D, but adds some boolean abilities to non-caster classes. [*]Palladium FRP, Palladium Mechanoids, RQ 1e/2e: some skills percentile, some have levels that provide non-success-chance effects, some table driven. [*]Traveller, RM/SM/MERP: all explicitly skill driven, with attribute effects on skills [*]FASA-STRPG: All skills percentile. Attributes do different things than skills. [*]Star Frontiers: each skill has multiple discrete subskills derived from the core skill. some subskills are boolean, earned at level 1; others are ranked. [/LIST] While not one I've played, Dallas {1978} is also attribute driven. The inclusion of boolean skills really wasn't something done much back in the day. There were plenty of arguments over whether class-based or skill based was superior superior. Given some of the realities of some of the very broad skills in use, in a few games, like Star Frontiers, essentially it's a game with a dozen very narrow classes, and six levels per class. late OD&D's & AD&D's introduction of level-gained abilities are unusual - until the 2000's, that mode was mostly D&D-line, and often absent from D&D derived heatbreakers, or amped up to 11 by every level gains of new abilities. In a way, I'm kind of glad AtDM didn't give in to feat-itus... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
I Am For The Darkmaster, Actually
Top