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I Am SO Over The "Rootless Vagabond" Archetype
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6424693" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>I think I should be clear that my goal with this is to get to more dungeon crawling, but to have the characters more invested in the goal of that dungeon crawling than "gold and fame and I've got a Good alignment so I'd help." I want them to have a more personal and more interesting stake in the outcomes of the dungeon crawl. </p><p></p><p>So, like, if every dwarf character has to pick from a list of dwarf-specific plot hooks that are about dwarves in the world (including maybe an item like "One of my cousins was involved in the Lost Mine of Deepmurk, where it was said that they dug so deep they entered the Abyss"), that would then lead to fightin' and explorin' and interactin', <em>related to that hook</em>. As opposed to just dropping that dungeon there and saying "Um, it might be evil, and there's a lot of treasure there." </p><p></p><p>And it's not back story per se, but rather <em>connections to the world</em> that I'm looking for. Back story is a good way to handle that a lot of the time, but I want stuff that comes up in play, not just interesting past-tense tidbits. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm kind of on the fence about this one.</p><p></p><p>One the one side, if you are signing up to play a game of heroic action and adventure <em>why is it a problem if the things your character values are threatened</em>? I mean, you play a character who willingly undertakes life-threatening dungeon exploration, and presumably your character values their own life, so you're signing up to have things your character values threatened by the DM. It's all just part of the story. "Save your lover from the evil dragon" is a cliche, yeah, but if you're going to save the world from evil demons, yeah, your dad or whatever might be a part of that. Exposing your character to risk is part and parcel of playing the game, after all!</p><p></p><p>On the other side, the DM killing your dad by fiat can be a little like the DM ruling that you are beat up and stripped naked and thrown into a jail cell by fiat. It screws with how you see your character and MAKES players want to limit possibilities like that. </p><p></p><p>This is part of why I'm looking for systems that handle stuff like this. SOMETIMES it's a good story, SOMETIMES it's just the DM screwing with you, and it's hard to know when it's column A and when it's column B -- when you as a player should expect to be challenged, and when you as a player should have reasonable confidence of security. And there's a tension there between "It shouldn't be useless" and "It shouldn't be a disadvantage." It would seem like making these purely advantageous would help?</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] 's idea, or something similar, seems a viable way to make these distinctions. </p><p></p><p>Of course, this doesn't quite explain why someone would be gun-shy about joining an in-world organization or some other campaign group. The Thief's Guild probably isn't going anywhere, so why, when the offer is extended to the party thief to join, do they decline? </p><p></p><p>Hmmmmm.........</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6424693, member: 2067"] I think I should be clear that my goal with this is to get to more dungeon crawling, but to have the characters more invested in the goal of that dungeon crawling than "gold and fame and I've got a Good alignment so I'd help." I want them to have a more personal and more interesting stake in the outcomes of the dungeon crawl. So, like, if every dwarf character has to pick from a list of dwarf-specific plot hooks that are about dwarves in the world (including maybe an item like "One of my cousins was involved in the Lost Mine of Deepmurk, where it was said that they dug so deep they entered the Abyss"), that would then lead to fightin' and explorin' and interactin', [I]related to that hook[/I]. As opposed to just dropping that dungeon there and saying "Um, it might be evil, and there's a lot of treasure there." And it's not back story per se, but rather [I]connections to the world[/I] that I'm looking for. Back story is a good way to handle that a lot of the time, but I want stuff that comes up in play, not just interesting past-tense tidbits. I'm kind of on the fence about this one. One the one side, if you are signing up to play a game of heroic action and adventure [I]why is it a problem if the things your character values are threatened[/I]? I mean, you play a character who willingly undertakes life-threatening dungeon exploration, and presumably your character values their own life, so you're signing up to have things your character values threatened by the DM. It's all just part of the story. "Save your lover from the evil dragon" is a cliche, yeah, but if you're going to save the world from evil demons, yeah, your dad or whatever might be a part of that. Exposing your character to risk is part and parcel of playing the game, after all! On the other side, the DM killing your dad by fiat can be a little like the DM ruling that you are beat up and stripped naked and thrown into a jail cell by fiat. It screws with how you see your character and MAKES players want to limit possibilities like that. This is part of why I'm looking for systems that handle stuff like this. SOMETIMES it's a good story, SOMETIMES it's just the DM screwing with you, and it's hard to know when it's column A and when it's column B -- when you as a player should expect to be challenged, and when you as a player should have reasonable confidence of security. And there's a tension there between "It shouldn't be useless" and "It shouldn't be a disadvantage." It would seem like making these purely advantageous would help? [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] 's idea, or something similar, seems a viable way to make these distinctions. Of course, this doesn't quite explain why someone would be gun-shy about joining an in-world organization or some other campaign group. The Thief's Guild probably isn't going anywhere, so why, when the offer is extended to the party thief to join, do they decline? Hmmmmm......... [/QUOTE]
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