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I for one hope we don't get "clarification" on many things.
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<blockquote data-quote="eryndel" data-source="post: 6376789" data-attributes="member: 13120"><p>Eh, you're correct. This makes it a bit more situational. Really it depends on the intent of the caster. </p><p></p><p>If the caster knows where the rogue is (just can't see 'em), casts a spell to remove the obstruction to bring the rogue into view, then yep, no roll required (at my table) cast spots the rogue. I feel this is adequately backed by the 'can't hide if you can be seen' clause.</p><p></p><p>If the destruction of the barrier was the result of quasi-random attempt to find the rogue, or blowing a hole in a larger wall, which gives some doubt over if the caster actually got the right spot, I'd leave it to a roll. If the caster says as part of the action, "I'm looking for the rogue", they'd get a perception roll. Otherwise, just a stealth roll vs Passive Perception. I feel this is backed well enough by the "When in doubt, roll" principle.</p><p></p><p>If the destruction was incidental, and caster isn't really aware of the rogue's presence, the stealth roll would be contested with a passive perception, backed by the passive skills rules I previously cited.</p><p></p><p>But, the truth is, we could analyze this toy problem any number of additional ways. Doesn't really get to the bottom line of your concern that the rules could have been better written. From my perspective, there's always going to be some ambiguity in language they may not hit all people and all biases as effectively. This is especially true when writing in the English language vice, <a href="http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Lojban" target="_blank">Lojban</a> for instance. As a writer, your goal is to write to your audience, and with an audience as diverse as a the D&D crowd, that's a difficult challenge. Are the stealth rules among the more ambiguous rules in the PHB, sure... there are a lot more things clear cut. However, for me, I feel I have enough rules to effectively arbitrate a given situation... even some of the carefully constructed corner cases.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eryndel, post: 6376789, member: 13120"] Eh, you're correct. This makes it a bit more situational. Really it depends on the intent of the caster. If the caster knows where the rogue is (just can't see 'em), casts a spell to remove the obstruction to bring the rogue into view, then yep, no roll required (at my table) cast spots the rogue. I feel this is adequately backed by the 'can't hide if you can be seen' clause. If the destruction of the barrier was the result of quasi-random attempt to find the rogue, or blowing a hole in a larger wall, which gives some doubt over if the caster actually got the right spot, I'd leave it to a roll. If the caster says as part of the action, "I'm looking for the rogue", they'd get a perception roll. Otherwise, just a stealth roll vs Passive Perception. I feel this is backed well enough by the "When in doubt, roll" principle. If the destruction was incidental, and caster isn't really aware of the rogue's presence, the stealth roll would be contested with a passive perception, backed by the passive skills rules I previously cited. But, the truth is, we could analyze this toy problem any number of additional ways. Doesn't really get to the bottom line of your concern that the rules could have been better written. From my perspective, there's always going to be some ambiguity in language they may not hit all people and all biases as effectively. This is especially true when writing in the English language vice, [URL="http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Lojban"]Lojban[/URL] for instance. As a writer, your goal is to write to your audience, and with an audience as diverse as a the D&D crowd, that's a difficult challenge. Are the stealth rules among the more ambiguous rules in the PHB, sure... there are a lot more things clear cut. However, for me, I feel I have enough rules to effectively arbitrate a given situation... even some of the carefully constructed corner cases. [/QUOTE]
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I for one hope we don't get "clarification" on many things.
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