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<blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 5869329" data-attributes="member: 8835"><p>I think you're mistaking my crappy examples using content from this thread for my point.</p><p></p><p>I don't want to give away action ideas to players either.</p><p></p><p>But some actions are SO FREAKING OBVIOUS, that you gotta wonder why the players aren't doing it already.</p><p></p><p>Odds are good that they aren't doing it because of a misunderstanding or lack of OBVIOUS information.</p><p></p><p>Even the advice about giving them obvious information is primarly noticeable by the player's actions. When the players do dumb things, it may be because they are missing something obvious.</p><p></p><p>actions and information are tied together. Players actions are really in reaction to the information you have given them.</p><p></p><p>I don't have perfect advice on how to point out obvious actions (which to me can be information). I simply point out that it might be part of the problem and is tricky to solve without giving away too much.</p><p></p><p>Maybe this is a better contrived example. The players are chasing the bad guy, who enters and old abandoned ruin. The party is just far enough behind him, they can't tell which way he went from the first room. You describe the place as having a stone floor. The players assume that means no tracks would be found. You had decided the floor had enough dust and such that the NPC could be tracked. The players however sit and debate about which doorway to take for 30 minutes and NEVER mention "tracking"</p><p></p><p>The problem is a lack of action, particularly a pretty simple and obvious action. Taking the action isn't a freebie (it's a skill check, the party could fail). The source of the problem is a lack of information that tracking is even a possibility because of the conditions.</p><p></p><p>I think in this example, the GM's mental process could connect the dots to "why don't these idiots just use Tracking" to "maybe these guys don't know there's a trail they can track" to "BTW, the floor has a light layer of dust on it that seems to be disturbed."</p><p></p><p>I posit that not all situations that could come up are this obvious, but the GM is sitting there, knowing the inherently obvious action the party could take, but the party doesn't have a clue. I suspect its less of a problem if the party is doing SOMETHING, but it is a huge problem when nothing is going on. Throwing a monster at the party doesn't really help anything, it just gives them something to do for 6 rounds.</p><p></p><p>Also note, I'm not talking about the complex actual solution to a puzzle or problem. I'm talking being brainblocked on something so trivial and obvious that is holding up game play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Janx, post: 5869329, member: 8835"] I think you're mistaking my crappy examples using content from this thread for my point. I don't want to give away action ideas to players either. But some actions are SO FREAKING OBVIOUS, that you gotta wonder why the players aren't doing it already. Odds are good that they aren't doing it because of a misunderstanding or lack of OBVIOUS information. Even the advice about giving them obvious information is primarly noticeable by the player's actions. When the players do dumb things, it may be because they are missing something obvious. actions and information are tied together. Players actions are really in reaction to the information you have given them. I don't have perfect advice on how to point out obvious actions (which to me can be information). I simply point out that it might be part of the problem and is tricky to solve without giving away too much. Maybe this is a better contrived example. The players are chasing the bad guy, who enters and old abandoned ruin. The party is just far enough behind him, they can't tell which way he went from the first room. You describe the place as having a stone floor. The players assume that means no tracks would be found. You had decided the floor had enough dust and such that the NPC could be tracked. The players however sit and debate about which doorway to take for 30 minutes and NEVER mention "tracking" The problem is a lack of action, particularly a pretty simple and obvious action. Taking the action isn't a freebie (it's a skill check, the party could fail). The source of the problem is a lack of information that tracking is even a possibility because of the conditions. I think in this example, the GM's mental process could connect the dots to "why don't these idiots just use Tracking" to "maybe these guys don't know there's a trail they can track" to "BTW, the floor has a light layer of dust on it that seems to be disturbed." I posit that not all situations that could come up are this obvious, but the GM is sitting there, knowing the inherently obvious action the party could take, but the party doesn't have a clue. I suspect its less of a problem if the party is doing SOMETHING, but it is a huge problem when nothing is going on. Throwing a monster at the party doesn't really help anything, it just gives them something to do for 6 rounds. Also note, I'm not talking about the complex actual solution to a puzzle or problem. I'm talking being brainblocked on something so trivial and obvious that is holding up game play. [/QUOTE]
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