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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7587948" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>Pixel bitching is a reference to old-school point and click adventure games where you sometimes had to click exactly the right pixel to progress, with little to no indication of where the right pixel is. Calling the goal and approach method “pixel bitching” suggests there is only one “correct” phrase that can be uttered to be successful, that anything but the exact right words will be stonewalled, and that the DM does not give sufficient information for the players to determine what the ”correct” words are. None of these things are true of the goal and approach method. For that method to work, the DM must give players sufficient telegraphs to have some idea where to start, and the DM should not have a predetermined set of acceptable approaches they are listening for. Each action should be assessed logically when the player describes it. The DM is not waiting for a code word, they are using their brain to decide if, given the circumstances, the player’s approach has a chance of succeeding at achieving the player’s goal, a chance of failing to achieve it, and a consequence for failing to achieve it. That’s what sets DMs apart from computers, they don’t have to follow a preprogrammed script, they can make reasoned judgment calls on the fly.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In theory, the character is informing the player’s decision making. The player’s goal may be to succeed without needing a check, but since that is not always possible, a player with high Dexterity and low Strength can set themselves up to be more likely to succeed when success is uncertain by employing methods that rely more on precision and finesse than direct application of force.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I just call it “the goal and approach method.”</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think Iserith has been quite clear on what they do. Where you seem to be struggling to understand it is in the assumption that declaring an action in terms of a goal and an approach must necessarily be a detailed description, and that Iserith and others who use this method must have a predetermined set of descriptions we will accept.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 7587948, member: 6779196"] Pixel bitching is a reference to old-school point and click adventure games where you sometimes had to click exactly the right pixel to progress, with little to no indication of where the right pixel is. Calling the goal and approach method “pixel bitching” suggests there is only one “correct” phrase that can be uttered to be successful, that anything but the exact right words will be stonewalled, and that the DM does not give sufficient information for the players to determine what the ”correct” words are. None of these things are true of the goal and approach method. For that method to work, the DM must give players sufficient telegraphs to have some idea where to start, and the DM should not have a predetermined set of acceptable approaches they are listening for. Each action should be assessed logically when the player describes it. The DM is not waiting for a code word, they are using their brain to decide if, given the circumstances, the player’s approach has a chance of succeeding at achieving the player’s goal, a chance of failing to achieve it, and a consequence for failing to achieve it. That’s what sets DMs apart from computers, they don’t have to follow a preprogrammed script, they can make reasoned judgment calls on the fly. In theory, the character is informing the player’s decision making. The player’s goal may be to succeed without needing a check, but since that is not always possible, a player with high Dexterity and low Strength can set themselves up to be more likely to succeed when success is uncertain by employing methods that rely more on precision and finesse than direct application of force. I just call it “the goal and approach method.” I think Iserith has been quite clear on what they do. Where you seem to be struggling to understand it is in the assumption that declaring an action in terms of a goal and an approach must necessarily be a detailed description, and that Iserith and others who use this method must have a predetermined set of descriptions we will accept. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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