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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7593110" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Action <em>declarations</em> sometimes have checks follow them. The action declaration, like the check itself, is an event in the real world. On the other hand, the action is an imagined event that (we pretend) occurs in the fictional world of the game.</p><p></p><p>I think that keeping these things distinct aids clarity, especially when trying to compare different approaches to action resolution.</p><p></p><p>For most versions of D&D, including 5e, for many action declarations this simply isn't true. In 5e the action declaration <em>I cast a spell</em> is not normally resolved by calling for a check. Nor is the action declaration <em>I pick the sword up from the ground</em>. Nor is the action declaration <em>I use the key to unlock the door</em>.</p><p></p><p>When you say that you <em>disagree</em>, are you (i) doubting the accuracy of my report of my experience, or (ii) reporting your own experience with this approach, or (iii) offering a conjecture?</p><p></p><p>To me, everything you talk about here is about GMing technique. Yes, if GMs use poor techniques they will get poor games. But that's why we don't use poor techniques!</p><p></p><p>To elaborate: in most D&D games I've participated in, observed, or read about, the non-combatants don't get to let the fighter "handle" the fighting. The GM establishes situations that put PCs other than just the fighter under pressure. Social situations can be framed the same way. Is the bard the fighter's herald? Well, then, the troll king (or whomever) does not want to deal with flunkies and go betweens - <em>I wish to treat directly with your lord</em>? Is the fighter there in the company of the bard - then the NPC asks, <em>So, what do you have to say?</em> Is the fighter going to refuse to respond? Will the fighter reply "I let our bard do all my talking for me?"</p><p></p><p>And if the player of the fighter makes a check and fails, why does that mean the fighter put his/her foot in his/her mouth? Why is the GM narrating that as the consequence of failure? When the player of the mage rolls a failed opportunity attack, does the GM narrate that the mage accidentally stabs him-/herself? If not, why narrate social failures in such a fashion. Or to put it another way, why frame the stakes as <em>that the fighter does or doesn't put his/her foot in his/her mouth</em> rather than (eg) <em>that the troll king does or doesn't agree to the fighter's proposal</em>?</p><p></p><p>To quote a post from another thread:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7593110, member: 42582"] Action [I]declarations[/I] sometimes have checks follow them. The action declaration, like the check itself, is an event in the real world. On the other hand, the action is an imagined event that (we pretend) occurs in the fictional world of the game. I think that keeping these things distinct aids clarity, especially when trying to compare different approaches to action resolution. For most versions of D&D, including 5e, for many action declarations this simply isn't true. In 5e the action declaration [I]I cast a spell[/I] is not normally resolved by calling for a check. Nor is the action declaration [I]I pick the sword up from the ground[/I]. Nor is the action declaration [I]I use the key to unlock the door[/I]. When you say that you [I]disagree[/I], are you (i) doubting the accuracy of my report of my experience, or (ii) reporting your own experience with this approach, or (iii) offering a conjecture? To me, everything you talk about here is about GMing technique. Yes, if GMs use poor techniques they will get poor games. But that's why we don't use poor techniques! To elaborate: in most D&D games I've participated in, observed, or read about, the non-combatants don't get to let the fighter "handle" the fighting. The GM establishes situations that put PCs other than just the fighter under pressure. Social situations can be framed the same way. Is the bard the fighter's herald? Well, then, the troll king (or whomever) does not want to deal with flunkies and go betweens - [I]I wish to treat directly with your lord[/I]? Is the fighter there in the company of the bard - then the NPC asks, [I]So, what do you have to say?[/I] Is the fighter going to refuse to respond? Will the fighter reply "I let our bard do all my talking for me?" And if the player of the fighter makes a check and fails, why does that mean the fighter put his/her foot in his/her mouth? Why is the GM narrating that as the consequence of failure? When the player of the mage rolls a failed opportunity attack, does the GM narrate that the mage accidentally stabs him-/herself? If not, why narrate social failures in such a fashion. Or to put it another way, why frame the stakes as [I]that the fighter does or doesn't put his/her foot in his/her mouth[/I] rather than (eg) [I]that the troll king does or doesn't agree to the fighter's proposal[/I]? To quote a post from another thread: [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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