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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7593603" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>Do you, though? Like, I know that punishing dump stats is a time-honored tradition, but... Should it be?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I really like this way of doing things, but I've found that under goal-and-approach, it usually arises organically. For a simple example, look at the locked door with an ogre on the other side. The ogre is not aware of the party. The party barbarian decides to bash the door down with her axe. Chance of success? Check. Chance of failure? Check. Cost for the attempt or consequence for failure? You betcha.</p><p></p><p><strong>DM:</strong> Ok, that's going to require a DC10 Strength check, and the noise is going to alert any nearby creatures to your presence.</p><p><strong>BARBARIAN:</strong> Can I apply Athletics?</p><p><strong>DM:</strong> Absolutely.</p><p><strong>BARBARIAN:</strong> Damn, natural 1, so that's a total of 7.</p><p><strong>DM:</strong> Your axe clangs against the door, but it doesn't give way.</p><p><strong>BARBARIAN:</strong> Can I try again?</p><p></p><p>Now we've got a new action. Again, the barbarian wants to break the door down with her axe. Chance of success? Check. Chance of failure? Check. Cost for the attempt or consequence for failure? Not this time. The ogre on the other side has already heard the noise, it's already aware of the party's presence. Failing again won't meaningfully change the party's situation, so the action is successful.</p><p></p><p><strong>DM:</strong> No need, now that any nearby monsters have heard you, there's no <em>more</em> danger in taking all the time you need to bust the door down.</p><p><strong>BARBARIAN:</strong> Guys, we sure we don't want to look for another way?</p><p><strong>ROGUE:</strong> No time, remember? That's why I didn't want to take the 10 minutes to pick the lock.</p><p><strong>BARBARIAN:</strong> Alright, everyone get ready, in case there's an ambush waiting for us on the other side.</p><p><strong>CLERIC:</strong> I'm gonna cast Bless on everyone real quick, just to be safe.</p><p><strong>BARBARIAN:</strong> Good call, thanks. Alright, everyone ready? Three, two, one... I break the door down!</p><p></p><p>That example got away from me a little bit. My point is, the above is functionally similar to progress with a drawback - the door can be opened in a single roll either way, and either way the party is in a worse position if that initial roll fails. The difference is, the above example affords the party the opportunity to reassess their situation after failing the roll and seeing that they've incurred a drawback. They can break down the door without rolling again if they want to, but they can also decide that now that the drawback is in play, they don't want to open it any more, or they can make preparations before opening it, like the Cleric casting Bless in the above example.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 7593603, member: 6779196"] Do you, though? Like, I know that punishing dump stats is a time-honored tradition, but... Should it be? I really like this way of doing things, but I've found that under goal-and-approach, it usually arises organically. For a simple example, look at the locked door with an ogre on the other side. The ogre is not aware of the party. The party barbarian decides to bash the door down with her axe. Chance of success? Check. Chance of failure? Check. Cost for the attempt or consequence for failure? You betcha. [B]DM:[/B] Ok, that's going to require a DC10 Strength check, and the noise is going to alert any nearby creatures to your presence. [B]BARBARIAN:[/B] Can I apply Athletics? [B]DM:[/B] Absolutely. [B]BARBARIAN:[/B] Damn, natural 1, so that's a total of 7. [B]DM:[/B] Your axe clangs against the door, but it doesn't give way. [B]BARBARIAN:[/B] Can I try again? Now we've got a new action. Again, the barbarian wants to break the door down with her axe. Chance of success? Check. Chance of failure? Check. Cost for the attempt or consequence for failure? Not this time. The ogre on the other side has already heard the noise, it's already aware of the party's presence. Failing again won't meaningfully change the party's situation, so the action is successful. [B]DM:[/B] No need, now that any nearby monsters have heard you, there's no [I]more[/I] danger in taking all the time you need to bust the door down. [B]BARBARIAN:[/B] Guys, we sure we don't want to look for another way? [B]ROGUE:[/B] No time, remember? That's why I didn't want to take the 10 minutes to pick the lock. [B]BARBARIAN:[/B] Alright, everyone get ready, in case there's an ambush waiting for us on the other side. [B]CLERIC:[/B] I'm gonna cast Bless on everyone real quick, just to be safe. [B]BARBARIAN:[/B] Good call, thanks. Alright, everyone ready? Three, two, one... I break the door down! That example got away from me a little bit. My point is, the above is functionally similar to progress with a drawback - the door can be opened in a single roll either way, and either way the party is in a worse position if that initial roll fails. The difference is, the above example affords the party the opportunity to reassess their situation after failing the roll and seeing that they've incurred a drawback. They can break down the door without rolling again if they want to, but they can also decide that now that the drawback is in play, they don't want to open it any more, or they can make preparations before opening it, like the Cleric casting Bless in the above example. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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