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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7596106" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>I didn't get to weigh in early in the thread, so I'd like to mention that this same issue came up in 3.0 - your low-CHA character was exactly as bad at telling the truth as at telling lies, because Bluff was the only thing that exposed Sense Motive. In 4e, it was explicit that deception used Bluff and dealing in good faith used Diplomacy, so a low-CHA character /could/ be better at telling the truth if he were trained in the latter skill but not the former. I don't see why the same couldn't hold in 5e, but, in addition, as has apparently been exhaustively asserted already...</p><p></p><p> Pointless, but part of the basic model of play advanced by 5e. Players declare actions, DMs call for checks if one is needed. "I roll a ______ check" is not an action. In theory, 5e players should never get to do that. A DM could be a jerk about it (cf 'jerk DM' thread), and take the player at his word, and have his character perform some dissociative (in the psychological sense) action as a result, as he is clearly insane. ;P</p><p></p><p> Players might do that, at some or even most tables, and certainly in some other editions, but in 5e, the foundational assumption is that they aren't meant to, and it's up to DM leniency what degree to allow them to do so. (For extremely familiar repeated actions that always take the same check, for instance, like the fighter's monotonous attacks.)</p><p></p><p>Sure, it's just not the basic 5e standard - applying /that/ the same across the game means players declare attacks and are told to make attack rolls (or have success/failure narrated)... every freak'n time, if the DM doesn't want to start cutting corners for the sake of saving a second here and there, and maybe his voice.</p><p></p><p></p><p>…so if your character is trying to get a read on whether he feels like an NPC is telling the truth, he asks the DM, and the DM either tells him he can't tell, he feels the NPC is truthful, he feels the NPC is pulling something, or calls for a check (whatever check he wants, but probably WIS, with Insight applicable). Because, really, that's the answer to just about every question about how to resolve something (unless magic) in 5e. </p><p>You could prettymuch mad-lib it.</p><p></p><p>Certainly no need for 100+ pages. ;P</p><p></p><p>(Which, yes, I know, I'm only adding to… </p><p>…I'll shut up now.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7596106, member: 996"] I didn't get to weigh in early in the thread, so I'd like to mention that this same issue came up in 3.0 - your low-CHA character was exactly as bad at telling the truth as at telling lies, because Bluff was the only thing that exposed Sense Motive. In 4e, it was explicit that deception used Bluff and dealing in good faith used Diplomacy, so a low-CHA character /could/ be better at telling the truth if he were trained in the latter skill but not the former. I don't see why the same couldn't hold in 5e, but, in addition, as has apparently been exhaustively asserted already... Pointless, but part of the basic model of play advanced by 5e. Players declare actions, DMs call for checks if one is needed. "I roll a ______ check" is not an action. In theory, 5e players should never get to do that. A DM could be a jerk about it (cf 'jerk DM' thread), and take the player at his word, and have his character perform some dissociative (in the psychological sense) action as a result, as he is clearly insane. ;P Players might do that, at some or even most tables, and certainly in some other editions, but in 5e, the foundational assumption is that they aren't meant to, and it's up to DM leniency what degree to allow them to do so. (For extremely familiar repeated actions that always take the same check, for instance, like the fighter's monotonous attacks.) Sure, it's just not the basic 5e standard - applying /that/ the same across the game means players declare attacks and are told to make attack rolls (or have success/failure narrated)... every freak'n time, if the DM doesn't want to start cutting corners for the sake of saving a second here and there, and maybe his voice. …so if your character is trying to get a read on whether he feels like an NPC is telling the truth, he asks the DM, and the DM either tells him he can't tell, he feels the NPC is truthful, he feels the NPC is pulling something, or calls for a check (whatever check he wants, but probably WIS, with Insight applicable). Because, really, that's the answer to just about every question about how to resolve something (unless magic) in 5e. You could prettymuch mad-lib it. Certainly no need for 100+ pages. ;P (Which, yes, I know, I'm only adding to… …I'll shut up now.) [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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