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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7596696" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm glad you spelled this out, because it was the first thing I thought when I read [MENTION=6801228]Chaosmancer[/MENTION]'s remark about the game's resolution method - ie that you would not agree.</p><p></p><p>As a semi-participant in this particualr discusion with [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION], I will say that what you describe here doesn't ring true to me at all, for my game.</p><p></p><p>I'm not talking about <em>tellling players coonsequences which would obtain even if the players weren't told</em>. I'm talking about <em>telling the players those consdequences that obtain</em>, or - alternatively - having those consequences be implict in the framing of the situation and the plyaer's knowledge of why the situation matters.</p><p></p><p>I don't think that keeping potential consequences secret from the players makes for good RPGing.</p><p></p><p>The devil is always in the details, of course - but at the level of generality that you have presented this example, the risk of the chandelier breaking would seem to be very much implict in the framing of the situation.</p><p></p><p>I don't agree with this at all. If it wasn't implicit in the situation that such a thing might happen, I would regard this as very bad GMing. I once had a thing a bit like this happen in a game - the GM teleported the party 100 years into the future. The effect was to largely invaldiate all our play to date, which was enmeshed in a particular time and place. (I think the GM did it because he felt he had lost control of the campaign, and wanted to reestablish that control.)</p><p></p><p>I quite the game a session or two after that, and I heard that it ended not long after.</p><p></p><p>To me, this would seem a good reason not to call for a check at all, because nothing is at stake.. Just narrate the climbing of the unremarable wall and keep moving until something more significant comes up.</p><p></p><p>For my part, it would depend. If the DC is zero/automatic (as per [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]'s comments upthread), no. But if what's going on is a mismatch between GM and player expectations as to whether something is at stake, it might be time for a re-calibration in our understanding of the situation.</p><p></p><p>Either way, I couldn't imagine it playing out like [MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION]'s example.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7596696, member: 42582"] I'm glad you spelled this out, because it was the first thing I thought when I read [MENTION=6801228]Chaosmancer[/MENTION]'s remark about the game's resolution method - ie that you would not agree. As a semi-participant in this particualr discusion with [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION], I will say that what you describe here doesn't ring true to me at all, for my game. I'm not talking about [i]tellling players coonsequences which would obtain even if the players weren't told[/i]. I'm talking about [i]telling the players those consdequences that obtain[/i], or - alternatively - having those consequences be implict in the framing of the situation and the plyaer's knowledge of why the situation matters. I don't think that keeping potential consequences secret from the players makes for good RPGing. The devil is always in the details, of course - but at the level of generality that you have presented this example, the risk of the chandelier breaking would seem to be very much implict in the framing of the situation. I don't agree with this at all. If it wasn't implicit in the situation that such a thing might happen, I would regard this as very bad GMing. I once had a thing a bit like this happen in a game - the GM teleported the party 100 years into the future. The effect was to largely invaldiate all our play to date, which was enmeshed in a particular time and place. (I think the GM did it because he felt he had lost control of the campaign, and wanted to reestablish that control.) I quite the game a session or two after that, and I heard that it ended not long after. To me, this would seem a good reason not to call for a check at all, because nothing is at stake.. Just narrate the climbing of the unremarable wall and keep moving until something more significant comes up. For my part, it would depend. If the DC is zero/automatic (as per [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]'s comments upthread), no. But if what's going on is a mismatch between GM and player expectations as to whether something is at stake, it might be time for a re-calibration in our understanding of the situation. Either way, I couldn't imagine it playing out like [MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION]'s example. [/QUOTE]
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If an NPC is telling the truth, what's the Insight DC to know they're telling the truth?
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