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If not death, then what?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8712892" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>No they're not, they're being a player.</p><p></p><p>In any game, be it an RPG or something else, it's the player's duty to, within the rules, push for the optimal outcome...which in many games simply means playing to win. In an RPG, where win-loss conditions are much fuzzier if extant at all, it means pushing outward against the rules envelope until the rules or the DM pushes back. This falls squarely under "advocating for your character".</p><p></p><p>If the rules at your table say my character can't die then you've given me that "out", or loophole, and I'm going to exploit the hell out of it. No jerk-ness involved or required, just doing my duty as the player of a game.</p><p></p><p>Don't want me to exploit that loophole? Then don't give it to me.</p><p></p><p>I don't treat the <strong>DM</strong> as a thing to be used but I do treat the <strong>game</strong> that way; and those are two very different things. The game is there for us all to use for whatever purpose we see fit, provided we all agree to play it; and in that is no different from Monopoly or Catan or ice hockey.</p><p></p><p>Where I love players like that! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Then don't say you won't kill my character. If you put no-character-death on the table you're explicitly asking for just this response, and have no-one to blame but yourself when that response comes rolling in.</p><p></p><p>Which also puts you in a tough spot, because you in fact <strong>will</strong> kill a character if you feel it's warranted; meaning at that point your bluff has been called and exposed as a bluff. Bang goes some trust around the table, I think.</p><p></p><p>Simpler, isn't it, to just leave death on the table as a possibility and have done with it?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8712892, member: 29398"] No they're not, they're being a player. In any game, be it an RPG or something else, it's the player's duty to, within the rules, push for the optimal outcome...which in many games simply means playing to win. In an RPG, where win-loss conditions are much fuzzier if extant at all, it means pushing outward against the rules envelope until the rules or the DM pushes back. This falls squarely under "advocating for your character". If the rules at your table say my character can't die then you've given me that "out", or loophole, and I'm going to exploit the hell out of it. No jerk-ness involved or required, just doing my duty as the player of a game. Don't want me to exploit that loophole? Then don't give it to me. I don't treat the [B]DM[/B] as a thing to be used but I do treat the [B]game[/B] that way; and those are two very different things. The game is there for us all to use for whatever purpose we see fit, provided we all agree to play it; and in that is no different from Monopoly or Catan or ice hockey. Where I love players like that! :) Then don't say you won't kill my character. If you put no-character-death on the table you're explicitly asking for just this response, and have no-one to blame but yourself when that response comes rolling in. Which also puts you in a tough spot, because you in fact [B]will[/B] kill a character if you feel it's warranted; meaning at that point your bluff has been called and exposed as a bluff. Bang goes some trust around the table, I think. Simpler, isn't it, to just leave death on the table as a possibility and have done with it? [/QUOTE]
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