Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Illusionism: Where Do You Stand?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 9082601" data-attributes="member: 177"><p>Ugh, the Quantum Ogre.</p><p></p><p>If the party didn't know about the ogre, or wasn't choosing a path in order to avoid the ogre or encounters in general, or their route doesn't make the placement of the ogre nonsensical, then the placement of the ogre doesn't violate their choice or agency. </p><p></p><p>The Quantum Ogre has the problem that it logically extends to the idea that the only campaign that does not engage in badwrongfun illusionism is one in which every single location, trap, and monster is placed before characters are generated. We overlook this because the QO presents the choice very close to the encounter, but in its simplicity it provides no guardrails against extending the separation.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I feel the Quantum Ogre is a poor, overly simplistic frame for a discussion around a nuanced topic. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>I am not picky, to be honest. My personal definitions of "agency" and "meaningful choice" are often pretty broad. I prefer to have a general sense of how much of this stuff is apt to happen.</p><p></p><p>As a GM, I inquire of my players how much they will tolerate illusionist shenanigans as part of Session Zero. </p><p></p><p>As a GM, I don't usually have much need of it, because my games are purposely trimmed down to what's really important - if that ogre is important enough to show up at all, he's important enough to give a <em>reason</em> to be able to show up along either road, and the fact that he can do so is relevant.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 9082601, member: 177"] Ugh, the Quantum Ogre. If the party didn't know about the ogre, or wasn't choosing a path in order to avoid the ogre or encounters in general, or their route doesn't make the placement of the ogre nonsensical, then the placement of the ogre doesn't violate their choice or agency. The Quantum Ogre has the problem that it logically extends to the idea that the only campaign that does not engage in badwrongfun illusionism is one in which every single location, trap, and monster is placed before characters are generated. We overlook this because the QO presents the choice very close to the encounter, but in its simplicity it provides no guardrails against extending the separation. I feel the Quantum Ogre is a poor, overly simplistic frame for a discussion around a nuanced topic. :p I am not picky, to be honest. My personal definitions of "agency" and "meaningful choice" are often pretty broad. I prefer to have a general sense of how much of this stuff is apt to happen. As a GM, I inquire of my players how much they will tolerate illusionist shenanigans as part of Session Zero. As a GM, I don't usually have much need of it, because my games are purposely trimmed down to what's really important - if that ogre is important enough to show up at all, he's important enough to give a [I]reason[/I] to be able to show up along either road, and the fact that he can do so is relevant. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Illusionism: Where Do You Stand?
Top