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Illusionism: Where Do You Stand?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9083920" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm hesitant to try and speak too authoritatively about how you should understand your own play, because you're there and I'm not. But I can share my own thoughts about these things, in the hope that they might be helpful to you.</p><p></p><p>I'm reposting, from upthread, some quotes that underlie my understanding of Force and Illusionism:</p><p>So I see Force as a special case of GM decision-making about what happens next - namely, decision-making that steps into the realm of players' action declaration and resolution for their PCs.</p><p></p><p>That "realm" can be a nebulous one, and even when it is clear in a particular moment of play that clarity is going to be a function of particular RPG system being played, plus general table expectations, plus what was understood by everyone at this particular moment of play, etc.</p><p></p><p>To give two, contrasting examples:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">*In a classic dungeon-crawl, if a player declares that their PC looks closely at the stalagmites, it would - at least it seems to me - Force for the GM to decide, on a whim, that one of them is a roper. Because this changes the meaning and consequences of the declared action - which, in a dungeon crawl, is all about carefully navigating your surroundings and avoiding being hosed by ropers and the like.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>In my 4e game, when a player declared that their PCs looked closely at the stalagmites, <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/underdark-adventure-with-demons-beholders-elementals-and-a-hydra.330383/" target="_blank">I decided - on a whim - that one of them was a roper</a>. This was undoubtedly relatively hard scene-framing - and in a conversation with one of my players a couple of weeks ago he still remembered it, over 10 years later. Was it Force? In the context of 4e D&D, which - at least at my table - was *not</em> about carefully navigating one's surrounding to avoid being hosed by ropers and the like, and <em>was</em> (among other things) about showing off your prowess in trope- and theme-laden conflicts - I don't think so. For that sort of game, it didn't change the meaning and consequence of the action - in mechanical terms the players got the benefit of the additional XP, the treasure parcels and action points those entail, etc; and in the broader "flow" of the game they got to show of their prowess to an even higher degree.</p><p></p><p>Whether or not what I did was Force, it definitely wasn't Illusionism! Everyone at the table knew what had happened - a player, through his declared action, had prompted me to make a roper part of the situation.</p><p></p><p>Or consider the example, in the passages I quoted, of the GM picking up the player's dice: Force, but no Illusion at all!</p><p></p><p>Illusionism is when the Force is concealed - and so, for instance, the GM pretends the roper was there, in their notes and planning, all along: they deny or conceal the fact that it was introduced on a whim in response to a declared action.</p><p></p><p>Likewise the clue-moving (a staple of published modules) - the players' declared actions, as resolved, don't reveal the clue, and instead of proceeding from this failure the GM manipulates the fiction "behind the screen" to bring it about that the consequences of a future action include a negation of the previous failure to find the clue.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I hope that gives a sense of how I understand the terms. For what it's worth, I would go with naked Force - that is, letting everyone know that you as GM are imposing your vision on the fiction - over Illusion just about every time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9083920, member: 42582"] I'm hesitant to try and speak too authoritatively about how you should understand your own play, because you're there and I'm not. But I can share my own thoughts about these things, in the hope that they might be helpful to you. I'm reposting, from upthread, some quotes that underlie my understanding of Force and Illusionism: So I see Force as a special case of GM decision-making about what happens next - namely, decision-making that steps into the realm of players' action declaration and resolution for their PCs. That "realm" can be a nebulous one, and even when it is clear in a particular moment of play that clarity is going to be a function of particular RPG system being played, plus general table expectations, plus what was understood by everyone at this particular moment of play, etc. To give two, contrasting examples: [indent]*In a classic dungeon-crawl, if a player declares that their PC looks closely at the stalagmites, it would - at least it seems to me - Force for the GM to decide, on a whim, that one of them is a roper. Because this changes the meaning and consequences of the declared action - which, in a dungeon crawl, is all about carefully navigating your surroundings and avoiding being hosed by ropers and the like. [I]In my 4e game, when a player declared that their PCs looked closely at the stalagmites, [url=https://www.enworld.org/threads/underdark-adventure-with-demons-beholders-elementals-and-a-hydra.330383/]I decided - on a whim - that one of them was a roper[/url]. This was undoubtedly relatively hard scene-framing - and in a conversation with one of my players a couple of weeks ago he still remembered it, over 10 years later. Was it Force? In the context of 4e D&D, which - at least at my table - was *not[/I] about carefully navigating one's surrounding to avoid being hosed by ropers and the like, and [I]was[/I] (among other things) about showing off your prowess in trope- and theme-laden conflicts - I don't think so. For that sort of game, it didn't change the meaning and consequence of the action - in mechanical terms the players got the benefit of the additional XP, the treasure parcels and action points those entail, etc; and in the broader "flow" of the game they got to show of their prowess to an even higher degree.[/indent] Whether or not what I did was Force, it definitely wasn't Illusionism! Everyone at the table knew what had happened - a player, through his declared action, had prompted me to make a roper part of the situation. Or consider the example, in the passages I quoted, of the GM picking up the player's dice: Force, but no Illusion at all! Illusionism is when the Force is concealed - and so, for instance, the GM pretends the roper was there, in their notes and planning, all along: they deny or conceal the fact that it was introduced on a whim in response to a declared action. Likewise the clue-moving (a staple of published modules) - the players' declared actions, as resolved, don't reveal the clue, and instead of proceeding from this failure the GM manipulates the fiction "behind the screen" to bring it about that the consequences of a future action include a negation of the previous failure to find the clue. Anyway, I hope that gives a sense of how I understand the terms. For what it's worth, I would go with naked Force - that is, letting everyone know that you as GM are imposing your vision on the fiction - over Illusion just about every time. [/QUOTE]
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