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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Illusionist Core Class - comments please
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<blockquote data-quote="Malin Genie" data-source="post: 805494" data-attributes="member: 1058"><p>Thanks for the comments so far! Taking them in order:</p><p></p><p>thullgrim: You could quite reasonably replace Scribe Scroll with Spell Focus (Illusion) as the first level bonus Feat - in fact, it is probably a better idea; then add Scribe Scroll to the list of bonus Feats an illusionist can choose.</p><p></p><p>If an illusionist is trying to create the illusion of a wall, I might give a dwarf or a character with ranks in Craft(Stonemason) a circumstance bonus to saves, or the illusionist herself a circumstance bonus to save DC if she were a dwarf or had a few ranks in the appropriate Craft skill to make it <em>more</em> convincing. But I'd rather use the individual Craft or Knowledge (possibly Appraise) skills than a catch -all Craft(Illusion)</p><p></p><p>Leif: Yes I have seen alternate core classes done by other people (although not the particular one you hav mentioned.) but any class I post here will be based only on WotC books for maximum accessibility - also, I don't want to steal and post (even derivatives of) other people's ideas that they are trying to sell !!</p><p></p><p>Rary: I had an internal debate about the <em>silent/minor/major image</em> series. They could probably all go one level lower without causing balance issues. Yes they lose access to a lot of spells (but some of the "general utility spells" like Contingency and RTB could certainly be added back in - I just didn't really see either of those as particularly 'fitting' - not that they were 'unfitting' in any major way.... they definitely should get <em>identify</em> (maybe as L2 rather than L1?) and <em>analyse dweomer</em> (?L6 ?L7)</p><p></p><p>However, especially if you play in a campaign where access to spells from non-PHB sources is heavily restricted or banned, the wide range of illusion-related spells they pick up IMHO makes up for it. I do agree that if the campaign default is that you can use spells from FRCS/MoF and/or convert spells from the Wu Jen and Psion lists - then this class probably loses out to the "standard" illusionist.</p><p></p><p>I didn't really think about the Spellcraft checks issue - absolutely right, they should get a bonus (+4? +1/2 class level?) on illusion-related spellcraft checks. As for the "Knowledge(Any)" issue I just didn't see illusionists as sages sitting in towers in the same way as 'classical' wizards. I saw them more as having an aspect of trickster and performer - hence the Bluff, Disguise, Sleight of Hand and Perform skills.</p><p></p><p>Maybe they could get an extra class ability/feat that spells which would normally see through illusions (e.g. <em>true seeing</em>) must make a CL check against DC 11 + illusionist level to penetrate the illusions of a "true" illusionist?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Malin Genie, post: 805494, member: 1058"] Thanks for the comments so far! Taking them in order: thullgrim: You could quite reasonably replace Scribe Scroll with Spell Focus (Illusion) as the first level bonus Feat - in fact, it is probably a better idea; then add Scribe Scroll to the list of bonus Feats an illusionist can choose. If an illusionist is trying to create the illusion of a wall, I might give a dwarf or a character with ranks in Craft(Stonemason) a circumstance bonus to saves, or the illusionist herself a circumstance bonus to save DC if she were a dwarf or had a few ranks in the appropriate Craft skill to make it [i]more[/i] convincing. But I'd rather use the individual Craft or Knowledge (possibly Appraise) skills than a catch -all Craft(Illusion) Leif: Yes I have seen alternate core classes done by other people (although not the particular one you hav mentioned.) but any class I post here will be based only on WotC books for maximum accessibility - also, I don't want to steal and post (even derivatives of) other people's ideas that they are trying to sell !! Rary: I had an internal debate about the [i]silent/minor/major image[/i] series. They could probably all go one level lower without causing balance issues. Yes they lose access to a lot of spells (but some of the "general utility spells" like Contingency and RTB could certainly be added back in - I just didn't really see either of those as particularly 'fitting' - not that they were 'unfitting' in any major way.... they definitely should get [i]identify[/i] (maybe as L2 rather than L1?) and [i]analyse dweomer[/i] (?L6 ?L7) However, especially if you play in a campaign where access to spells from non-PHB sources is heavily restricted or banned, the wide range of illusion-related spells they pick up IMHO makes up for it. I do agree that if the campaign default is that you can use spells from FRCS/MoF and/or convert spells from the Wu Jen and Psion lists - then this class probably loses out to the "standard" illusionist. I didn't really think about the Spellcraft checks issue - absolutely right, they should get a bonus (+4? +1/2 class level?) on illusion-related spellcraft checks. As for the "Knowledge(Any)" issue I just didn't see illusionists as sages sitting in towers in the same way as 'classical' wizards. I saw them more as having an aspect of trickster and performer - hence the Bluff, Disguise, Sleight of Hand and Perform skills. Maybe they could get an extra class ability/feat that spells which would normally see through illusions (e.g. [i]true seeing[/i]) must make a CL check against DC 11 + illusionist level to penetrate the illusions of a "true" illusionist? [/QUOTE]
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