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Illusionist - is it as weak as it seems?
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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6523962" data-attributes="member: 92511"><p>Well, no. "It<em> has</em> to be..." because you want to play/have an idea for a character who is an illusionist. That is the reason.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><emphasis mine></p><p>If dictating/changing the outcome of two d20 dice rolls is "comparatively weak", then you and I, sir, have very different definitions of what "weak" is. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>But really, as you say, it's nice. And if you already have Minor Illusion, which truthfully I can not imagine any mage with an eye toward Illusionist would not, you get to pick something else...and the Minor Illusion still gives you sight and sound. So really you're getting an extra and a half. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah. This is my first real look at it and...What does it even mean?</p><p></p><p>You "change the nature of the illusion (using the spell's normal parameters for the illusion),..." What does that mean? At 6th level, we're talking about stuff like Invisibility, Mirror Image and Major Image. How does one "change the nature" of these spells? What<em> is</em> "changing the nature" of these spells?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, now, this is a matter of interpretation, I think...as so much illusion magic is. I'll grant you it is a poorly conceived/written power. To state you use shadow-stuff to make your illusion "real" and, in the next breath, say it can not deal damage is immersion breaking/makes no sense. Considering the thing only exists for 1 minute anyway, I would be inclined to houserule this to permit damage.</p><p></p><p>HOWEVER, the power is used in conjunction wit hone of your illusion spells. So, seems to me, it is entirely reasonable that you could Phantasmal Force up a barstool. Strike someone with it. It is shadow-real. It hits them. It smashes into pieces and clatters to the floor. By virtue of the Phantasmal Force spell, given the target fails their save, they take d6 damage...just from the spell not the power. If they make their save, they still see and feel the barstool...cuz it's "real" ya see?...they just don't take damage from it. Either way, I'm pretty sure your bar fight is going to get started. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. I don't think that's too much to ask at all. I'd perhaps make the adjustment that you can only impose disadvantage against one target. I'd probably swap out the 6th level power for this. 6th level seems like a high enough level that the illusionist should start making their illusions more perfected/tougher to resist. Make it, like, +1 additional target at 10th and 14th and call it a day.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 6523962, member: 92511"] Well, no. "It[I] has[/I] to be..." because you want to play/have an idea for a character who is an illusionist. That is the reason. <emphasis mine> If dictating/changing the outcome of two d20 dice rolls is "comparatively weak", then you and I, sir, have very different definitions of what "weak" is. ;) But really, as you say, it's nice. And if you already have Minor Illusion, which truthfully I can not imagine any mage with an eye toward Illusionist would not, you get to pick something else...and the Minor Illusion still gives you sight and sound. So really you're getting an extra and a half. Yeah. This is my first real look at it and...What does it even mean? You "change the nature of the illusion (using the spell's normal parameters for the illusion),..." What does that mean? At 6th level, we're talking about stuff like Invisibility, Mirror Image and Major Image. How does one "change the nature" of these spells? What[I] is[/I] "changing the nature" of these spells? Well, now, this is a matter of interpretation, I think...as so much illusion magic is. I'll grant you it is a poorly conceived/written power. To state you use shadow-stuff to make your illusion "real" and, in the next breath, say it can not deal damage is immersion breaking/makes no sense. Considering the thing only exists for 1 minute anyway, I would be inclined to houserule this to permit damage. HOWEVER, the power is used in conjunction wit hone of your illusion spells. So, seems to me, it is entirely reasonable that you could Phantasmal Force up a barstool. Strike someone with it. It is shadow-real. It hits them. It smashes into pieces and clatters to the floor. By virtue of the Phantasmal Force spell, given the target fails their save, they take d6 damage...just from the spell not the power. If they make their save, they still see and feel the barstool...cuz it's "real" ya see?...they just don't take damage from it. Either way, I'm pretty sure your bar fight is going to get started. :p No. I don't think that's too much to ask at all. I'd perhaps make the adjustment that you can only impose disadvantage against one target. I'd probably swap out the 6th level power for this. 6th level seems like a high enough level that the illusionist should start making their illusions more perfected/tougher to resist. Make it, like, +1 additional target at 10th and 14th and call it a day. [/QUOTE]
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