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<blockquote data-quote="ezo" data-source="post: 9275075" data-attributes="member: 7037866"><p>See, this is unfortunately the issue.</p><p></p><p>5E grants players a lot of power and options, with the rest mechanics, easy healing, abundant magic, etc. it makes challenging them with "level-appropriate" foes difficult. Yes, you can ramp up the power of adversaries also (max hp, max damage, special features), but then combats can feel just like drawn out slug-fests. 5E also allows for a lot of min/maxing, especially if you use feats and multiclassing!</p><p></p><p>So, they like D&D "best", and it seems they mean 5E. Once given power, most people don't like having it taken away.</p><p></p><p>While you can heavily house-rule 5E (as my groups have done) to make it more satisfying to you, you also need to talk to your players to make certain the house-rules are acceptable to them. Some players don't like heavy house-rules, a bit of nerfing, etc. and speaking from experience we've had a couple players eventually leave to find games more "RAW".</p><p></p><p>[USER=86653]@overgeeked[/USER] has provided a great list of things you can try, but after you sit down and talk to the group, find out what changes they can live with and still be happy, let us know how it goes and the list of things you can all agree on.</p><p></p><p>For example, we've removed CON from hp, slowed down spell-casting progression, made rests take longer (short 3 hours, long 24 hours), removed multiclassing (replaced with second class as subclass), limited most races--removed darkvision from 80% of the races with it, and more.</p><p></p><p>Our other main DM, a frequent poster here up until a while back, developed most of the rules, and now he and a couple others of us have been developing a stream-lined version of 5E with lower power-curve, fewer classes, no subclasses or multiclassing, revised spellcasting, and more. If you're interested, I can PM a more detailed account when I have more time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ezo, post: 9275075, member: 7037866"] See, this is unfortunately the issue. 5E grants players a lot of power and options, with the rest mechanics, easy healing, abundant magic, etc. it makes challenging them with "level-appropriate" foes difficult. Yes, you can ramp up the power of adversaries also (max hp, max damage, special features), but then combats can feel just like drawn out slug-fests. 5E also allows for a lot of min/maxing, especially if you use feats and multiclassing! So, they like D&D "best", and it seems they mean 5E. Once given power, most people don't like having it taken away. While you can heavily house-rule 5E (as my groups have done) to make it more satisfying to you, you also need to talk to your players to make certain the house-rules are acceptable to them. Some players don't like heavy house-rules, a bit of nerfing, etc. and speaking from experience we've had a couple players eventually leave to find games more "RAW". [USER=86653]@overgeeked[/USER] has provided a great list of things you can try, but after you sit down and talk to the group, find out what changes they can live with and still be happy, let us know how it goes and the list of things you can all agree on. For example, we've removed CON from hp, slowed down spell-casting progression, made rests take longer (short 3 hours, long 24 hours), removed multiclassing (replaced with second class as subclass), limited most races--removed darkvision from 80% of the races with it, and more. Our other main DM, a frequent poster here up until a while back, developed most of the rules, and now he and a couple others of us have been developing a stream-lined version of 5E with lower power-curve, fewer classes, no subclasses or multiclassing, revised spellcasting, and more. If you're interested, I can PM a more detailed account when I have more time. [/QUOTE]
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