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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
In Defense of 4E - a New Campaign Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7552566" data-attributes="member: 4348"><p>4e was fun to play. On itself, it was a pretty good game.</p><p></p><p>It suffered in the same way that Xbox One suffers today.</p><p></p><p>The Marketing plan was incredibly ridiculous. They fashioned it after 3e thinking that it would be just as popular. 3e changed the base game more than 4e did (though with the addition of powers into the mix 4e SEEMS to have changed it more to many, and WotC's marketing did not help with htat) in the transition from the AD&D base to the D20 base. Thus they thought they could pull off the same stunts.</p><p></p><p>It worked for some. 4e sold faster right off the bat and more. It WAS successful, but later on hit many potholes that started showing some serious problems. The PR that started as it was announced sort of let it to that flailing end. The core rulebooks sold well, but beyond that things didn't work out as well as many higher ups probably hoped for.</p><p></p><p>The Xbox One has had similar difficulties, things which are still perceived to be bad with it today. </p><p></p><p>They came with the wrong view and it bombed them HARD.</p><p></p><p>But today the Xbox one has less DRM than the PS4 (and ironically THAT was one of the BIG things that killed it in it's initial announcement when they talked about EVERYTHING with Xbox One being basically onlined DRM'd). For downloaded games it allows people to change their console more often and offline far more than Sony does. Sony is all about the DRM these days while Xbox has backed off Greatly. </p><p></p><p>The PS4 doesn't have backwards compatibility, the Xbox One doesn't really have it either but after failing so hard they found they HAD to change it up and made a backwards compatibility type emulation so that people could play the older Xbox games. </p><p></p><p>These things have not really helped. That initial PR damaged them so badly that even as they've made great sales with the Xbox One, they probably will never even come close to being a contender vs. the PS4.</p><p></p><p>I see the same thing happened with 4e. As a system, it actually was a pretty good system. It got better as time went on. However, that PR at the beginning was a complete disaster. It had the opposite effect then I think they intended.</p><p></p><p>Customers were REALLY put off by it. When they went to buy the 4e corebooks many didn't do it because they thought it was a fabulous system they were buying. They were doing it just to see what it was and with a biased view so that anything they could think of to back up their opinion that 4e was a mistake could be utilized to back up their bad feelings towards it. To say many players were upset is probably the understatement of the decade!</p><p></p><p>Many of those that bring up things that experienced 4e players know are wrong today are remnants of those hard feelings brought on by BAD PR and BAD marketing. </p><p></p><p>A prime example is the one that says you cannot roleplay or roleplaying is less of a factor in 4e. It isn't. If there is less roleplaying in 4e it is for the same reason there would be less roleplaying in AD&D or 3e or 5e. It's the Groups (or DM's) choice to play it like that.</p><p></p><p>I enjoyed 4e, though I personally would have preferred that the powers and such were streamlined (so rather than having different various powers, one could if they wished simply have ONE powerful encounter power they could use multiple times a day if that's how they wanted to play...etc...etc...etc) and other factors. I thought the game was fun. </p><p></p><p>Today though, I play very little 4e. Overall, I prefer 5e in my own gaming currently. I still play a good amount of AD&D and also occasionally 3.5 or a 3.5/pathfinder mix, but 4e isn't one of the games that we play much. </p><p></p><p>I'd say that if one WANTS to play 4e, do what I do with AD&D. AD&D can be a beast to find gamers locally that want to play. Instead get friends who may have an interest but do not really play much and start your own game and recruit them as players. This way I get to play the game version I wish too, even when there seems to be on players around that play that version.</p><p></p><p>My current game campaign of D&D (BECMI) just started last month in Mid-December and is still going on. Games never die as long as someone wants to play it...the key is being the spark that lights the fire of a campaign.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 7552566, member: 4348"] 4e was fun to play. On itself, it was a pretty good game. It suffered in the same way that Xbox One suffers today. The Marketing plan was incredibly ridiculous. They fashioned it after 3e thinking that it would be just as popular. 3e changed the base game more than 4e did (though with the addition of powers into the mix 4e SEEMS to have changed it more to many, and WotC's marketing did not help with htat) in the transition from the AD&D base to the D20 base. Thus they thought they could pull off the same stunts. It worked for some. 4e sold faster right off the bat and more. It WAS successful, but later on hit many potholes that started showing some serious problems. The PR that started as it was announced sort of let it to that flailing end. The core rulebooks sold well, but beyond that things didn't work out as well as many higher ups probably hoped for. The Xbox One has had similar difficulties, things which are still perceived to be bad with it today. They came with the wrong view and it bombed them HARD. But today the Xbox one has less DRM than the PS4 (and ironically THAT was one of the BIG things that killed it in it's initial announcement when they talked about EVERYTHING with Xbox One being basically onlined DRM'd). For downloaded games it allows people to change their console more often and offline far more than Sony does. Sony is all about the DRM these days while Xbox has backed off Greatly. The PS4 doesn't have backwards compatibility, the Xbox One doesn't really have it either but after failing so hard they found they HAD to change it up and made a backwards compatibility type emulation so that people could play the older Xbox games. These things have not really helped. That initial PR damaged them so badly that even as they've made great sales with the Xbox One, they probably will never even come close to being a contender vs. the PS4. I see the same thing happened with 4e. As a system, it actually was a pretty good system. It got better as time went on. However, that PR at the beginning was a complete disaster. It had the opposite effect then I think they intended. Customers were REALLY put off by it. When they went to buy the 4e corebooks many didn't do it because they thought it was a fabulous system they were buying. They were doing it just to see what it was and with a biased view so that anything they could think of to back up their opinion that 4e was a mistake could be utilized to back up their bad feelings towards it. To say many players were upset is probably the understatement of the decade! Many of those that bring up things that experienced 4e players know are wrong today are remnants of those hard feelings brought on by BAD PR and BAD marketing. A prime example is the one that says you cannot roleplay or roleplaying is less of a factor in 4e. It isn't. If there is less roleplaying in 4e it is for the same reason there would be less roleplaying in AD&D or 3e or 5e. It's the Groups (or DM's) choice to play it like that. I enjoyed 4e, though I personally would have preferred that the powers and such were streamlined (so rather than having different various powers, one could if they wished simply have ONE powerful encounter power they could use multiple times a day if that's how they wanted to play...etc...etc...etc) and other factors. I thought the game was fun. Today though, I play very little 4e. Overall, I prefer 5e in my own gaming currently. I still play a good amount of AD&D and also occasionally 3.5 or a 3.5/pathfinder mix, but 4e isn't one of the games that we play much. I'd say that if one WANTS to play 4e, do what I do with AD&D. AD&D can be a beast to find gamers locally that want to play. Instead get friends who may have an interest but do not really play much and start your own game and recruit them as players. This way I get to play the game version I wish too, even when there seems to be on players around that play that version. My current game campaign of D&D (BECMI) just started last month in Mid-December and is still going on. Games never die as long as someone wants to play it...the key is being the spark that lights the fire of a campaign. [/QUOTE]
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