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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
In Defense of 4E - a New Campaign Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="Jer" data-source="post: 7552604" data-attributes="member: 19857"><p>The point is that some folks don't like games that aren't trying to simulate a world. Others don't have a problem with it.</p><p></p><p>IMO 4e has a lot less world simulation and a lot more genre emulation in its design. If you want to role play in a fantasy novel or movie, I personally think the 4e structures are actually better for doing that than other editions of D&D.</p><p></p><p>But if you want to think of the game as a simulated world that has its own physical rules that the game rules are trying to describe, then 4e is going to be a game engine that isn't for you. Because the physics of it are somewhat arbitrary. Because they aren't trying to simulate a world they're trying to emulate a narrative genre, so you get things like minions having one hit point (because narratively they're there to provide a minor obstacle that can be dealt with in one or two actions, not a long-term threat) or challenges that scale with tier (because narratively you aren't going to put the low level hero and the epic hero in front of the same locked door), etc.</p><p></p><p>(Another problem many folks have with 4e that comes from the same root is if they aren't interested in that particular narrative style. If you don't want to play a high heroic fantasy game, 4e requires a lot of tweaking. If you're in the mood for gritty realism it's probably the wrong game for you because the narrative it was built to support isn't gritty realism. You can make it work, but it requires you to make it work - it isn't there out of the box. For the same reason it's also not a good fit for a "zeroes to heroes" campaign which for some people <strong>is</strong> D&D. So I understand why many folks have issues with the engine, even if I consider it the best version of D&D so far for my table - because my campaigns tend to all be either high heroic or outright gonzo kitchen-sink fantasy, which 4e is able to do very, very well.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jer, post: 7552604, member: 19857"] The point is that some folks don't like games that aren't trying to simulate a world. Others don't have a problem with it. IMO 4e has a lot less world simulation and a lot more genre emulation in its design. If you want to role play in a fantasy novel or movie, I personally think the 4e structures are actually better for doing that than other editions of D&D. But if you want to think of the game as a simulated world that has its own physical rules that the game rules are trying to describe, then 4e is going to be a game engine that isn't for you. Because the physics of it are somewhat arbitrary. Because they aren't trying to simulate a world they're trying to emulate a narrative genre, so you get things like minions having one hit point (because narratively they're there to provide a minor obstacle that can be dealt with in one or two actions, not a long-term threat) or challenges that scale with tier (because narratively you aren't going to put the low level hero and the epic hero in front of the same locked door), etc. (Another problem many folks have with 4e that comes from the same root is if they aren't interested in that particular narrative style. If you don't want to play a high heroic fantasy game, 4e requires a lot of tweaking. If you're in the mood for gritty realism it's probably the wrong game for you because the narrative it was built to support isn't gritty realism. You can make it work, but it requires you to make it work - it isn't there out of the box. For the same reason it's also not a good fit for a "zeroes to heroes" campaign which for some people [B]is[/B] D&D. So I understand why many folks have issues with the engine, even if I consider it the best version of D&D so far for my table - because my campaigns tend to all be either high heroic or outright gonzo kitchen-sink fantasy, which 4e is able to do very, very well.) [/QUOTE]
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