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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
In Defense of 4E - a New Campaign Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="Jacob Lewis" data-source="post: 7554338" data-attributes="member: 6667921"><p>Anyway! Getting back to the original point of this thread, I wanted to share my personal experiences for @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42040" target="_blank">Retreater</a></u></strong></em> since we seem to share similar (but unique) paths. My DM origins began further back with the Basic (Red) and Expert (Blue) sets, and then progressing through AD&D (1st/2nd) until it became D&D again (3rd/4th) and ended abruptly with the NEXT (5th) re-iteration. Finding a consistent gaming group was never easy for me until 4th edition came around, but I wasn't an immediate fan when it came out. To me, the game felt incomplete as it lacked many of the traditional player classes and races. But once the PHB2 came out, I took a more serious look. That's more like it!</p><p></p><p>4e wasn't without its flaws and shortcomings, but what edition of D&D isn't? But what I saw that really shined outweighed all of it. Classes designed to be equally balanced and useful no matter what you played. Cooperative play and design became more important (i.e. players were more often building characters as a group rather than a single entity hoping for a group to support whatever they wanted to do). Encounters were easier to design and balance--heck, everything behind the DM screen became less of a chore. Designer notes were a regular thing so you knew exactly why decisions were made (even the bad ones). Digitial tools (well at first anyway--just call it a "mixed-bag"). </p><p></p><p>Interestingly, I found that a lot of players who never played D&D before actually prefer 4th Edition. Maybe its because they're not a bunch of jerks like us (myself included) who hang around forums all day, over-analyzing every aspect of the game for the last 40+ years, and crying about something that is or isn't broken ruining it for everybody even though most of us don't see a problem. For example, when I presented my wife the PHBs for each edition (she had never played an RPG before in her life), she immediately gravitated towards 4e. I asked her why. Overall, it just looked more accessible and better organized. She was right, of course. Other players I've met (and are less biased towards) brought their young sons and daughters to Encounters, or spouses who have never played before. They knew (more or less) exactly what they could or couldn't do, and felt as much as part of the group whatever character they played.</p><p></p><p>And I can go on for as long as anyone who has as many complaints, maybe longer. Suffice it to say, I have reasons like anybody else. 5e is a good system for other people, but it holds no interest for me. I tried it a couple times, even joined a session for Adventurer's League. One player out of five others had a name for their character. Everybody else... who admitted excitedly they loved watching Critical Role... had decided to play Barbarian #2 or alternate Cleric #5, had minimal IC interaction with anyone else, and only perked up to slay the hapless gargoyle/statue-things that were trying to give the party a clue. (I was playing a loud-mouthed dwarf bard who made a lot of bad, but fun, decisions! Only one person seemed to appreciate that. Hint: His character had a name.)</p><p></p><p>Next time I get back to this, I'll tell you how I addressed some of those common complaints during my best (and longest) campaign, which I ran in PbP forum. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jacob Lewis, post: 7554338, member: 6667921"] Anyway! Getting back to the original point of this thread, I wanted to share my personal experiences for @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42040"]Retreater[/URL][/U][/B][/I] since we seem to share similar (but unique) paths. My DM origins began further back with the Basic (Red) and Expert (Blue) sets, and then progressing through AD&D (1st/2nd) until it became D&D again (3rd/4th) and ended abruptly with the NEXT (5th) re-iteration. Finding a consistent gaming group was never easy for me until 4th edition came around, but I wasn't an immediate fan when it came out. To me, the game felt incomplete as it lacked many of the traditional player classes and races. But once the PHB2 came out, I took a more serious look. That's more like it! 4e wasn't without its flaws and shortcomings, but what edition of D&D isn't? But what I saw that really shined outweighed all of it. Classes designed to be equally balanced and useful no matter what you played. Cooperative play and design became more important (i.e. players were more often building characters as a group rather than a single entity hoping for a group to support whatever they wanted to do). Encounters were easier to design and balance--heck, everything behind the DM screen became less of a chore. Designer notes were a regular thing so you knew exactly why decisions were made (even the bad ones). Digitial tools (well at first anyway--just call it a "mixed-bag"). Interestingly, I found that a lot of players who never played D&D before actually prefer 4th Edition. Maybe its because they're not a bunch of jerks like us (myself included) who hang around forums all day, over-analyzing every aspect of the game for the last 40+ years, and crying about something that is or isn't broken ruining it for everybody even though most of us don't see a problem. For example, when I presented my wife the PHBs for each edition (she had never played an RPG before in her life), she immediately gravitated towards 4e. I asked her why. Overall, it just looked more accessible and better organized. She was right, of course. Other players I've met (and are less biased towards) brought their young sons and daughters to Encounters, or spouses who have never played before. They knew (more or less) exactly what they could or couldn't do, and felt as much as part of the group whatever character they played. And I can go on for as long as anyone who has as many complaints, maybe longer. Suffice it to say, I have reasons like anybody else. 5e is a good system for other people, but it holds no interest for me. I tried it a couple times, even joined a session for Adventurer's League. One player out of five others had a name for their character. Everybody else... who admitted excitedly they loved watching Critical Role... had decided to play Barbarian #2 or alternate Cleric #5, had minimal IC interaction with anyone else, and only perked up to slay the hapless gargoyle/statue-things that were trying to give the party a clue. (I was playing a loud-mouthed dwarf bard who made a lot of bad, but fun, decisions! Only one person seemed to appreciate that. Hint: His character had a name.) Next time I get back to this, I'll tell you how I addressed some of those common complaints during my best (and longest) campaign, which I ran in PbP forum. ;) [/QUOTE]
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