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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
In Defense of 4E - a New Campaign Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7605751" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>It's funny how the subject has turned to hps.</p><p></p><p>The second-earliest, second-most-vicious, second-best-justified criticism of primordial D&D was that characters gaining hps through 'experience' made no sense. (Obviously that's second after 'forgetting' spells upon casting being ridiculous.) EGGs exhaustive defense of the system was a useable rationalization if you were willing to suspend disbelief a bit and accept hps (and saving throws - the #3 criticism being the all-or-nothing poison save, OK, or maybe that was #4 after armor making you harder to hit, instead of harder to hurt) as modeling the 'plot armor' that figuratively protected fictional characters. And that tenuous rationalization has stood as the only official explanation of hps used in D&D. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, take the example, above, about the inexperienced warrior taking an arrow to the armored torso and being dropped by the shock/pain of the impact (no wound channel or anything, but kinetic impact), while the more experienced one pushes through the pain and stays conscious. D&D literally cannot simulate that scenario. In D&D, if an arrow doesn't penetrate your armor, it's a miss, it inflicts NO damage. If it does 'hit,' it inflicts /exactly/ the same damage it would have had you not been wearing armor. </p><p></p><p>EGG's rationalization of hps works with that: armored or unarmored, the inexperienced character takes an arrow to the chest and goes down severely wounded & dying (or just dead, depending on ed & optional rules in place), while the experienced one - warned by his 'sixth sense' or nudged by divine providence or whatever - twists aside and suffers, at most, perhaps, a gash on his arm instead of a penetrating chest wound.</p><p></p><p>It's a level of abstraction, 'gamism,' and/or verisimilitude-breaking that's comparable to that implied by armor functioning only to turn hits into clean misses, or initiative progressing in turns, or poisoning being an all-or-nothing affair (among many other D&Disms). And, of course, still far more realistic, less abstract, and no more gamist than effing spell slots. </p><p></p><p>So there is a consistency to D&D hps - it's that they're as unrealistic as all the other sub-systems.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7605751, member: 996"] It's funny how the subject has turned to hps. The second-earliest, second-most-vicious, second-best-justified criticism of primordial D&D was that characters gaining hps through 'experience' made no sense. (Obviously that's second after 'forgetting' spells upon casting being ridiculous.) EGGs exhaustive defense of the system was a useable rationalization if you were willing to suspend disbelief a bit and accept hps (and saving throws - the #3 criticism being the all-or-nothing poison save, OK, or maybe that was #4 after armor making you harder to hit, instead of harder to hurt) as modeling the 'plot armor' that figuratively protected fictional characters. And that tenuous rationalization has stood as the only official explanation of hps used in D&D. I mean, take the example, above, about the inexperienced warrior taking an arrow to the armored torso and being dropped by the shock/pain of the impact (no wound channel or anything, but kinetic impact), while the more experienced one pushes through the pain and stays conscious. D&D literally cannot simulate that scenario. In D&D, if an arrow doesn't penetrate your armor, it's a miss, it inflicts NO damage. If it does 'hit,' it inflicts /exactly/ the same damage it would have had you not been wearing armor. EGG's rationalization of hps works with that: armored or unarmored, the inexperienced character takes an arrow to the chest and goes down severely wounded & dying (or just dead, depending on ed & optional rules in place), while the experienced one - warned by his 'sixth sense' or nudged by divine providence or whatever - twists aside and suffers, at most, perhaps, a gash on his arm instead of a penetrating chest wound. It's a level of abstraction, 'gamism,' and/or verisimilitude-breaking that's comparable to that implied by armor functioning only to turn hits into clean misses, or initiative progressing in turns, or poisoning being an all-or-nothing affair (among many other D&Disms). And, of course, still far more realistic, less abstract, and no more gamist than effing spell slots. So there is a consistency to D&D hps - it's that they're as unrealistic as all the other sub-systems. [/QUOTE]
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