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Incarnum in Pathfinder
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<blockquote data-quote="paradox42" data-source="post: 5389989" data-attributes="member: 29746"><p>Sorry about coming off like an ass myself- I answered that at work and since it's the start of our busy season I got a <strong>lot</strong> more stupid mistakes to fix than usual. Translation, I wasn't in the best (or most patient) of moods. Bygones?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, one reason I keep harping on this is because I really like the idea; I think some really interesting things could be done with it if it does follow slightly different rules. Sort of like the Shadow Weave and the basic Weave in Forgotten Realms, I suppose. But then again, those didn't <em>really</em> use different rules in the end, so perhaps it is best to just say for game purposes that they form one pool like any other multiclass meldshaper gets.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ooo, good catch! <em>Limited Wish</em> is too strong, true. And I noticed after making that post that your Deathless capstone ability actually includes a Trap-the-Soul-like ability, so maybe that's where the full <em>Wish</em> comes in to the picture. It already <strong>is</strong> mentioned in the ability, so perhaps just say it extends the Trap the Soul ability to its final level, or something. Cross-reference them, in other words.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So some of these new soulmelds would be shared with Incarnate, and perhaps Soulborn, then? Not at all a bad thought, of course. There's also the idea that, since you've invented this new category (whether or not there are new rules regarding it), you can combine it with the Necrocarnum category to make something like, say, a Midnight Necrocarnum Crown. Or Cloak. Or Armor. Or Whatever.</p><p></p><p>No, I don't have any specific idea what it does, but it's an idea.<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>AOOs usually don't allow combat maneuvers, so a bonus to CMD wouldn't really do much in that case. But bonuses against traps could work well- especially since the limited utility of the bonus means that it could legitimately offer a bonus to several things at once, or a larger bonus than most melds give, to make up for the fact that it's limited.</p><p></p><p>Another idea is that, since this is Necrocarnum, maybe the Boots actually let the wearer <em>move</em> like (some) Undead can- for example, by giving a Fly speed? Just like all those Incorporeal Undead floating around draining peoples' levels?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Oooh, with that new wording the ability actually becomes okay I think. A limited version that doesn't have the long down time could also work; both shouldn't be part of it of course but either could be good.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That is a really unique ability for Incarnum to grant- and Grappling at a distance is just plain rare and hard to get, period. It's like a <em>Hand</em> spell, right? Oh, and I think with the Arms bind you meant to say "a number equal to the essentia you invest" rather than Chakra.</p><p></p><p>The first <em>Hand </em>spell that offers Grapple capability is <em>Grasping Hand</em>,which is 7th level (no caster below 13th could get it without buying a scroll, so that's a lower bound on when a meldshaper should get something similar), so that definitely is too strong for a Hands Chakra Bind. It could work for Arms if it has limited duration, maybe.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps just offer the distance-Grapple-single-enemy as the Arms Bind; its extremely limited range and the requirement of a full-round action to use it are big handicaps from the spell version. If you then still want a Hands Bind for this, how about something like, the meld now offers the bonus to CMB on Disarm and Sunder as well as Grapple, and the bonus to CMD vs. Grapple as well as Disarm and Sunder?</p><p></p><p>One thing one should think about when creating any soulmeld, particularly a new category of meld, is: where does the power come from? Your Midnight melds are flavorful, but what powers them? How is that power source different from the power sources for other soulmelds? Answering those questions can often suggest new ideas for melds which you wouldn't have thought of otherwise.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="paradox42, post: 5389989, member: 29746"] Sorry about coming off like an ass myself- I answered that at work and since it's the start of our busy season I got a [B]lot[/B] more stupid mistakes to fix than usual. Translation, I wasn't in the best (or most patient) of moods. Bygones? Well, one reason I keep harping on this is because I really like the idea; I think some really interesting things could be done with it if it does follow slightly different rules. Sort of like the Shadow Weave and the basic Weave in Forgotten Realms, I suppose. But then again, those didn't [I]really[/I] use different rules in the end, so perhaps it is best to just say for game purposes that they form one pool like any other multiclass meldshaper gets. Ooo, good catch! [I]Limited Wish[/I] is too strong, true. And I noticed after making that post that your Deathless capstone ability actually includes a Trap-the-Soul-like ability, so maybe that's where the full [I]Wish[/I] comes in to the picture. It already [B]is[/B] mentioned in the ability, so perhaps just say it extends the Trap the Soul ability to its final level, or something. Cross-reference them, in other words. So some of these new soulmelds would be shared with Incarnate, and perhaps Soulborn, then? Not at all a bad thought, of course. There's also the idea that, since you've invented this new category (whether or not there are new rules regarding it), you can combine it with the Necrocarnum category to make something like, say, a Midnight Necrocarnum Crown. Or Cloak. Or Armor. Or Whatever. No, I don't have any specific idea what it does, but it's an idea.:) AOOs usually don't allow combat maneuvers, so a bonus to CMD wouldn't really do much in that case. But bonuses against traps could work well- especially since the limited utility of the bonus means that it could legitimately offer a bonus to several things at once, or a larger bonus than most melds give, to make up for the fact that it's limited. Another idea is that, since this is Necrocarnum, maybe the Boots actually let the wearer [I]move[/I] like (some) Undead can- for example, by giving a Fly speed? Just like all those Incorporeal Undead floating around draining peoples' levels? Oooh, with that new wording the ability actually becomes okay I think. A limited version that doesn't have the long down time could also work; both shouldn't be part of it of course but either could be good. That is a really unique ability for Incarnum to grant- and Grappling at a distance is just plain rare and hard to get, period. It's like a [I]Hand[/I] spell, right? Oh, and I think with the Arms bind you meant to say "a number equal to the essentia you invest" rather than Chakra. The first [I]Hand [/I]spell that offers Grapple capability is [I]Grasping Hand[/I],which is 7th level (no caster below 13th could get it without buying a scroll, so that's a lower bound on when a meldshaper should get something similar), so that definitely is too strong for a Hands Chakra Bind. It could work for Arms if it has limited duration, maybe. Perhaps just offer the distance-Grapple-single-enemy as the Arms Bind; its extremely limited range and the requirement of a full-round action to use it are big handicaps from the spell version. If you then still want a Hands Bind for this, how about something like, the meld now offers the bonus to CMB on Disarm and Sunder as well as Grapple, and the bonus to CMD vs. Grapple as well as Disarm and Sunder? One thing one should think about when creating any soulmeld, particularly a new category of meld, is: where does the power come from? Your Midnight melds are flavorful, but what powers them? How is that power source different from the power sources for other soulmelds? Answering those questions can often suggest new ideas for melds which you wouldn't have thought of otherwise. [/QUOTE]
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