Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Incarnum in Pathfinder
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="paradox42" data-source="post: 5394042" data-attributes="member: 29746"><p>I don't like the idea of changing the basic mechanic given with the other Talents- that is, suddenly changing the bonus granted and altering how it interacts with the rest of the game. Keep in mind, too, that the Incarnate can be Sharing this, so other characters could be stacking the bonus onto one person as well. With the existing Talents, they could use the bonus to Aid Another, but doing that can only ever grant the same old +2 bonus so it doesn't really change much.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>You miss the point of Incarnum Radiance if you think it <strong>should</strong> offer any protection whatsoever for the Incarnate's Paladin buddy. The Paladin's an extreme alignment, by definition; as far as the Balance "alignment" is concerned, he deserves whatever nasty evil things he gets since he went so far off the balanced way. Remember, the Incarnate as a class is supposed to represent the strongest possible alignment conviction; that's its whole reason for being.</p><p> </p><p>Also, it's worth noting that all of the <em>offensive</em> alignment effects (such as <em>Blasphemy</em>, which you mentioned) specifically <strong>do</strong> affect neutral creatures; they're designed to affect <em>non-X</em> aligned creatures (where X is of course the effect's own alignment, for example, <em>Chaos Hammer</em> is Chaotic). The Incarnate of Balance, while using Gift of Neutrality, would be utterly immune to those, as if he actually <strong>were</strong> X-aligned. So would any of his friends who happen to be eligible for the Sharing of his Radiance, so if we (for instance) allow the Incarnate of Balance to Share with allies who are Neutral on <em>either</em> alignment axis, rather than True Neutral, then it would be possible for the Incarnate of Balance to render his Lawful Neutral friend immune to <em>Chaos Hammer</em> and <em>Word of Chaos</em> (a big one). That doesn't look weak at all to me. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Even worse. Again, suddenly changing the way the whole mechanic works just for the Incarnate of Balance is a Bad Idea. It's practically guaranteed to cause rule headaches down the line.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>ATM there isn't such a way, but that's a potential avenue to explore for making a feat. It's <strong>highly</strong> specialized, so the question in my mind is, is it actually even <em>worth</em> a feat? There are spells and other effects in Pathfinder which can temporarily change the material of a weapon for the purposes of DR; nothing about the Incarnate Weapon's description leads me to think that such things wouldn't work on one. The Weapon is apparently a physical object; other creatures can pick it up (they just don't get any of the benefits the Incarnate does when wielding it, if they do). My own test character was actually built specifically with the idea that he likes to <strong>throw</strong> his axe, since it returns to him automatically one round later (it's like getting a free Weapon of Throwing). Admittedly, he doesn't do it often, but he does do it.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>Immunity to Charm works nicely, I agree- in fact, one could even go immunity to Compulsion as well IMO since this is a Soul bind (and therefore the strongest possible type). Possibly consider the immunity to low-level effects in addition to that; a full <em>Globe</em> may be too much. Similarly, although a Soul bind is strong enough to consider 8th-level effects (and therefore <em>Mind Blank</em>), any such effect would have to be limited somehow (the way the <em>Gate</em> is limited to 1/week for Planar Chasuble). Better probably to just limit it to specific kinds of mental effects- Charm and Compulsion being the two most obvious ones.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="paradox42, post: 5394042, member: 29746"] I don't like the idea of changing the basic mechanic given with the other Talents- that is, suddenly changing the bonus granted and altering how it interacts with the rest of the game. Keep in mind, too, that the Incarnate can be Sharing this, so other characters could be stacking the bonus onto one person as well. With the existing Talents, they could use the bonus to Aid Another, but doing that can only ever grant the same old +2 bonus so it doesn't really change much. You miss the point of Incarnum Radiance if you think it [B]should[/B] offer any protection whatsoever for the Incarnate's Paladin buddy. The Paladin's an extreme alignment, by definition; as far as the Balance "alignment" is concerned, he deserves whatever nasty evil things he gets since he went so far off the balanced way. Remember, the Incarnate as a class is supposed to represent the strongest possible alignment conviction; that's its whole reason for being. Also, it's worth noting that all of the [I]offensive[/I] alignment effects (such as [I]Blasphemy[/I], which you mentioned) specifically [B]do[/B] affect neutral creatures; they're designed to affect [I]non-X[/I] aligned creatures (where X is of course the effect's own alignment, for example, [I]Chaos Hammer[/I] is Chaotic). The Incarnate of Balance, while using Gift of Neutrality, would be utterly immune to those, as if he actually [B]were[/B] X-aligned. So would any of his friends who happen to be eligible for the Sharing of his Radiance, so if we (for instance) allow the Incarnate of Balance to Share with allies who are Neutral on [I]either[/I] alignment axis, rather than True Neutral, then it would be possible for the Incarnate of Balance to render his Lawful Neutral friend immune to [I]Chaos Hammer[/I] and [I]Word of Chaos[/I] (a big one). That doesn't look weak at all to me. :) Even worse. Again, suddenly changing the way the whole mechanic works just for the Incarnate of Balance is a Bad Idea. It's practically guaranteed to cause rule headaches down the line. ATM there isn't such a way, but that's a potential avenue to explore for making a feat. It's [B]highly[/B] specialized, so the question in my mind is, is it actually even [I]worth[/I] a feat? There are spells and other effects in Pathfinder which can temporarily change the material of a weapon for the purposes of DR; nothing about the Incarnate Weapon's description leads me to think that such things wouldn't work on one. The Weapon is apparently a physical object; other creatures can pick it up (they just don't get any of the benefits the Incarnate does when wielding it, if they do). My own test character was actually built specifically with the idea that he likes to [B]throw[/B] his axe, since it returns to him automatically one round later (it's like getting a free Weapon of Throwing). Admittedly, he doesn't do it often, but he does do it. Immunity to Charm works nicely, I agree- in fact, one could even go immunity to Compulsion as well IMO since this is a Soul bind (and therefore the strongest possible type). Possibly consider the immunity to low-level effects in addition to that; a full [I]Globe[/I] may be too much. Similarly, although a Soul bind is strong enough to consider 8th-level effects (and therefore [I]Mind Blank[/I]), any such effect would have to be limited somehow (the way the [I]Gate[/I] is limited to 1/week for Planar Chasuble). Better probably to just limit it to specific kinds of mental effects- Charm and Compulsion being the two most obvious ones. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Incarnum in Pathfinder
Top