Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Incarnum in Pathfinder
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="paradox42" data-source="post: 6339804" data-attributes="member: 29746"><p>Thanks for the critique and feedback!</p><p></p><p></p><p>Shape Soulmeld actually never <strong>got</strong> an update, because it didn't really need one as-is. You'll notice that a few other feats exist in MoI which never got updated, like Soultouched Spellcasting; this was intentional. Expanded Meldshaping was intended to be used for serious meldshapers, and especially meldshapers who research their own soulmelds; Shape Soulmeld is more of a dabbler's feat (though the Soulborn can use it to get a critical soulmeld at 1st level, also).</p><p></p><p>But the problem of combining Golden Hammer with Radiant Incarnate (or Spirit Guide, or most to the point Patternmelder since that's actually a Foundationist that gets the meld without spending a feat) had never occurred to me before! That is indeed a serious issue. Thanks for pointing it out.</p><p></p><p>The simplest fix, here, I think, is to reword the Golden Hammer so that it becomes clear that the ability to meet feat prerequisites applies to the <em>wearer's own</em> meldshaper level, rather than the meldshaper level of the soulmeld; this would mean that if you give a Golden Hammer to a character who isn't a meldshaper, they have no meldshaper level so that Item Creation feat is useless to them because they don't meet the prereqs.</p><p></p><p>Alternatively, maybe it is just Too Damned Good to allow access to all the feats, and should be limited to a selection like Arms & Armor, Wondrous Item, and Forge Ring. Or perhaps the meld substitutes meldshaper level for caster/manifester level and just grants you the ability to actually <em>take</em> the Item Creation feats, like it was giving you Master Craftsman and X Craft ranks (where X = your meldshaper level).</p><p></p><p>Note that the massive skill bonus you achieved is not actually very difficult to get with meldshapers- meldshapers actually make <strong>spectacular</strong> skill monkeys if properly configured and played. +20 for one specific skill at level 5 is a lot, yes, but believe it or not I've seen higher bonuses.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is another potential solution, but makes the meld versatile in an entirely different way- the number of Chakras you can use it with. Still, the point is well taken.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Incarnate in general is not a super-aggressive class, actually, and Radiant is intentionally even less so. It was designed to fill more of a "party buffer" role than anything else- that's what the Infused Soulmeld class feature is designed to do in the first place.</p><p></p><p>Your suggestion about average attack progression has been suggested for the Incarnate before, though, and perhaps should in fact be done- Incarnate is, after all, patterned after the Cleric in that it's the "Cleric" of meldshapers to the Totemist "Druid" and the Soulborn "Paladin," and the Cleric has average attack progression- so why not the Incarnate too? It's clear that the original WotC designers wanted Incarnate to be a sort of stand-in for both Cleric and Wizard, with regards to meldshaping, but the actual selection of soulmelds is all Cleric really- hardly anything Wizard-worthy is there to be seen. That was why I had to come up with so many new ones for the Foundationist.</p><p></p><p>If you can get your GM to change the attack progression (or if you are the GM and want to change it), I say go for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="paradox42, post: 6339804, member: 29746"] Thanks for the critique and feedback! Shape Soulmeld actually never [B]got[/B] an update, because it didn't really need one as-is. You'll notice that a few other feats exist in MoI which never got updated, like Soultouched Spellcasting; this was intentional. Expanded Meldshaping was intended to be used for serious meldshapers, and especially meldshapers who research their own soulmelds; Shape Soulmeld is more of a dabbler's feat (though the Soulborn can use it to get a critical soulmeld at 1st level, also). But the problem of combining Golden Hammer with Radiant Incarnate (or Spirit Guide, or most to the point Patternmelder since that's actually a Foundationist that gets the meld without spending a feat) had never occurred to me before! That is indeed a serious issue. Thanks for pointing it out. The simplest fix, here, I think, is to reword the Golden Hammer so that it becomes clear that the ability to meet feat prerequisites applies to the [I]wearer's own[/I] meldshaper level, rather than the meldshaper level of the soulmeld; this would mean that if you give a Golden Hammer to a character who isn't a meldshaper, they have no meldshaper level so that Item Creation feat is useless to them because they don't meet the prereqs. Alternatively, maybe it is just Too Damned Good to allow access to all the feats, and should be limited to a selection like Arms & Armor, Wondrous Item, and Forge Ring. Or perhaps the meld substitutes meldshaper level for caster/manifester level and just grants you the ability to actually [I]take[/I] the Item Creation feats, like it was giving you Master Craftsman and X Craft ranks (where X = your meldshaper level). Note that the massive skill bonus you achieved is not actually very difficult to get with meldshapers- meldshapers actually make [B]spectacular[/B] skill monkeys if properly configured and played. +20 for one specific skill at level 5 is a lot, yes, but believe it or not I've seen higher bonuses. This is another potential solution, but makes the meld versatile in an entirely different way- the number of Chakras you can use it with. Still, the point is well taken. Incarnate in general is not a super-aggressive class, actually, and Radiant is intentionally even less so. It was designed to fill more of a "party buffer" role than anything else- that's what the Infused Soulmeld class feature is designed to do in the first place. Your suggestion about average attack progression has been suggested for the Incarnate before, though, and perhaps should in fact be done- Incarnate is, after all, patterned after the Cleric in that it's the "Cleric" of meldshapers to the Totemist "Druid" and the Soulborn "Paladin," and the Cleric has average attack progression- so why not the Incarnate too? It's clear that the original WotC designers wanted Incarnate to be a sort of stand-in for both Cleric and Wizard, with regards to meldshaping, but the actual selection of soulmelds is all Cleric really- hardly anything Wizard-worthy is there to be seen. That was why I had to come up with so many new ones for the Foundationist. If you can get your GM to change the attack progression (or if you are the GM and want to change it), I say go for it. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Incarnum in Pathfinder
Top