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<blockquote data-quote="astriemer" data-source="post: 2292551" data-attributes="member: 19771"><p>A while ago RW answered a question about giving feats or other class abilities using spells with the following two answers:</p><p></p><p><em>Maybe an Infuse spell would work to grant the knowledge of strange abilities. Infuse Time for initiative, Infuse Air to dodge with evasion, Infuse Death maybe for weapon proficiency. Be careful not to undercost unique class abilities.</em></p><p></p><p><em>Regarding granting feats through magic, I couldn't quite think of where they needed to go, spell list-wise.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>I do know, though, that the ability would be written so that X MP grants a +Y bonus to the number of feats you know. Multiple spells don't grant stacking bonus feats. That way you can't cast several spells to get several bonus feats. If you want to have 3 bonus feats, you have to pay (pulling a number out of thin air) 3 MP.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>You need to have all the prerequisites feats in a feat chain, but you can ignore ability score and attack bonus prerequisites. You can't grant magical feats this way. If you wanted to grant yourself Whirlwind Attack, you'd need to grant Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, and Whirlwind Attack as a package; if you wanted to give Whirlwind Attack to someone who already had Spring Attack, you'd just have to grant Combat Expertise and Whirlwind Attack.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Hmm. Any suggestions for pricing that, and where to put it in the spell lists?</em></p><p></p><p>How about this for which spell lists to use?</p><p></p><p><u>Spell List: feats or class abilities associated with spell list</u></p><p>Life: feats dealing with endurance or health (Endurance, Run, Diehard, etc.)</p><p>Time: feats dealing with time, initiative, or speed (Improved Initiative, etc.)</p><p>Good: exalted feats</p><p>Evil: vile feats</p><p>Earth: feats relating to melee combat</p><p>Air: feats relating to ranged or multi-weapon combat</p><p>Death: general combat feats and weapon proficiencies</p><p>Mist: feats relating to unarmed combat</p><p>Sound: feats relating to defensive combat (including armor profs)</p><p>Void: feats relating to mounted combat</p><p>Acid: tactical feats</p><p>Crystal: feats relating to barbarian abililities (rage and damage reduction)</p><p>Fire: feats relating to bardic abilities (music)</p><p>Water: feats relating to clerical abilities (domains or undead turning)</p><p>Ice: feats relating to druidic abilities (companions, wild shape, empathy)</p><p>Mist: feats relating to monk abilities (ki, flurry)</p><p>Ooze: feats relating to paladin abilities (speical mount, divine grace, lay-hands, smite)</p><p>Sound: feats relating to ranger abilities (favored enemy)</p><p>Space: feats relating to rogue abilities (sneak, evasion)</p><p>Water: feats relating to the senses (scent)</p><p></p><p>Any other abilities then could be placed using these as guidelines. </p><p></p><p>FYI-I took a quick look through some of the books I had handy to see what kinds of feats and abilities are granted and saw that the following were granted at one point or another (whirlwind, ranged whirlwind, far shot, weapon and armor proficiencies, weapon finese, evasion, sneak attack, scent, improved crit, rage, choice from all fighter feats). A couple of these are already pretty closely similated (improved crit with infuse space, rage with charm, sneak attack with elemental weapon) but others are not.</p><p></p><p>Most of these are "physical" feats, should there be some explicit limitation with infuse to prevent certain feats (such as preventing metamagic, item creation, tradition, regional)? I don't remember for sure, but I think I remember seeing a spell that applied a metamagic effect to the next spell cast, so maybe there shouldn't be a limitation. As I recall though there was a pretty hefty material component cost so perhaps that isn't a good example. Probably best just to use a varient of LA greater power components to achieve that effect.</p><p></p><p>Off the top of RW's head, he proposed 1 MP gives 1 feat (with feat chains requiring full payment up front). Has any tried to see if that is balanced yet?</p><p></p><p>What type of cost would the class abilities be (given RW's warning not to undercost them)? I'm thinking maybe 1 MP per level it would take to get the ability within the normal class progression or the step increase for abilities that are usable x/day normally (thus evasion 2 MP, improved evasion 9 MP, smite 5 MP for example).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="astriemer, post: 2292551, member: 19771"] A while ago RW answered a question about giving feats or other class abilities using spells with the following two answers: [I]Maybe an Infuse spell would work to grant the knowledge of strange abilities. Infuse Time for initiative, Infuse Air to dodge with evasion, Infuse Death maybe for weapon proficiency. Be careful not to undercost unique class abilities.[/I] [I]Regarding granting feats through magic, I couldn't quite think of where they needed to go, spell list-wise. I do know, though, that the ability would be written so that X MP grants a +Y bonus to the number of feats you know. Multiple spells don't grant stacking bonus feats. That way you can't cast several spells to get several bonus feats. If you want to have 3 bonus feats, you have to pay (pulling a number out of thin air) 3 MP. You need to have all the prerequisites feats in a feat chain, but you can ignore ability score and attack bonus prerequisites. You can't grant magical feats this way. If you wanted to grant yourself Whirlwind Attack, you'd need to grant Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, and Whirlwind Attack as a package; if you wanted to give Whirlwind Attack to someone who already had Spring Attack, you'd just have to grant Combat Expertise and Whirlwind Attack. Hmm. Any suggestions for pricing that, and where to put it in the spell lists?[/I] How about this for which spell lists to use? [U]Spell List: feats or class abilities associated with spell list[/U] Life: feats dealing with endurance or health (Endurance, Run, Diehard, etc.) Time: feats dealing with time, initiative, or speed (Improved Initiative, etc.) Good: exalted feats Evil: vile feats Earth: feats relating to melee combat Air: feats relating to ranged or multi-weapon combat Death: general combat feats and weapon proficiencies Mist: feats relating to unarmed combat Sound: feats relating to defensive combat (including armor profs) Void: feats relating to mounted combat Acid: tactical feats Crystal: feats relating to barbarian abililities (rage and damage reduction) Fire: feats relating to bardic abilities (music) Water: feats relating to clerical abilities (domains or undead turning) Ice: feats relating to druidic abilities (companions, wild shape, empathy) Mist: feats relating to monk abilities (ki, flurry) Ooze: feats relating to paladin abilities (speical mount, divine grace, lay-hands, smite) Sound: feats relating to ranger abilities (favored enemy) Space: feats relating to rogue abilities (sneak, evasion) Water: feats relating to the senses (scent) Any other abilities then could be placed using these as guidelines. FYI-I took a quick look through some of the books I had handy to see what kinds of feats and abilities are granted and saw that the following were granted at one point or another (whirlwind, ranged whirlwind, far shot, weapon and armor proficiencies, weapon finese, evasion, sneak attack, scent, improved crit, rage, choice from all fighter feats). A couple of these are already pretty closely similated (improved crit with infuse space, rage with charm, sneak attack with elemental weapon) but others are not. Most of these are "physical" feats, should there be some explicit limitation with infuse to prevent certain feats (such as preventing metamagic, item creation, tradition, regional)? I don't remember for sure, but I think I remember seeing a spell that applied a metamagic effect to the next spell cast, so maybe there shouldn't be a limitation. As I recall though there was a pretty hefty material component cost so perhaps that isn't a good example. Probably best just to use a varient of LA greater power components to achieve that effect. Off the top of RW's head, he proposed 1 MP gives 1 feat (with feat chains requiring full payment up front). Has any tried to see if that is balanced yet? What type of cost would the class abilities be (given RW's warning not to undercost them)? I'm thinking maybe 1 MP per level it would take to get the ability within the normal class progression or the step increase for abilities that are usable x/day normally (thus evasion 2 MP, improved evasion 9 MP, smite 5 MP for example). [/QUOTE]
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